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CSM Minutes

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Ridvanson
#1 - 2014-10-29 19:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ridvanson
The CSM minutes are out!

"CCP Greyscale said he thought the amount of isk earnt in W-space was still alot.

Corbexx replied that you could make more isk mining ore’s in Lowsec than you could in a C1 or C2. He also stated that while C5 and C6 cap escalations were good isk, running sites in your static without capital escalations would earn less than C4 space per person. He suggested maybe moving some of the isk from cap escalation to the actual site and limiting the amount a site could be escalated to encourage people doing stuff in there static.

Asayanami Said you could earn isk running incursions.

CCP Greyscale commented that comparing anything to incursions was unsound as they were potentially paying out to much anyway, and it wasn't a good benchmark.

Corbexx Gave rough estimates of how much you could earn in lower class wormholes. Along with the fact that lower class wormho les were alot more reliant on melted nanoribbons and thus affected alot more by market value of these items.

Ali agreed that C1 and c2 isk was ****, and that even compared to missions they were still had a higher level of entry."

I also recommend reading the chapter on POS, the word s h i t is being used a lot xD
B0T0
Dzieci we mgle
#2 - 2014-10-29 19:46:34 UTC
Quote:
CCP Masterplan - Right now alliances are not normal things in the game.
They have their own set of Alliance IDs which is why they don’t exist and cannot own anything.
We also want to give Alliance IDs in order to be able to allow them to have bookmarks, hangars etc etc.
We don't plan on having this happen this year however, but we'll be adding the functionality on the back end to prepare for this.
Then there is the longer term planning.
Asayanami Dei - Alliance bookmarks!
CCP Fozzie - We are laying the groundwork for them but we do not expect to have alliance bookmarks in the 2014 calendar year.


Soon...

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#3 - 2014-10-29 20:17:48 UTC
Some portions of the minutes have already gone live obviously but it was interesting to see from the first 30 pages how eager CCP are to start making more... "adventurous" changes to the game.
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#4 - 2014-10-29 20:39:29 UTC
A good / long read :D Although it was quite disappointing how few of the people involved actually realised the effort behind running sites in Wormholes and how bad the payout is for the risk in the C1 - C4's. Its not like you just look at local and then undock in 100% safety.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#5 - 2014-10-29 20:46:42 UTC
It was an interesting read.

There needs to be a industrial boom in wormhole space. Stuff needs to be more than about t3's (has to be a purpose to build in them). I think they get that though.

There was zero discussion about the frig wormhole (though I don't know if they have metrics on it atm).

Ice might be a possibility.

Interesting read though.

Yaay!!!!
Pro TIps
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-10-29 21:56:24 UTC
Ridvanson wrote:
CCP Greyscale commented that comparing anything to incursions was unsound as they were potentially paying out to much anyway, and it wasn't a good benchmark.

Unless incursion-runners suddenly got their own special currency that isn't ISK, it is obviously sound to compare every form of income in the game to incursions.

If they nerf incursions, fine. Until that happens, whenever anyone wants ISK the smartest thing to do is log onto your highsec carebear alt and begin doing incursions for 150M+/hr plus concord LP.

That incursion ISK affects the price of every item in the game. PLEX, tritanium, blablah.

I don't have to tell any of you guys this, but I'd like to tell Greyscale, because you can't dismiss an ISK faucet simply because you think it might be paying too much. If he thinks it's paying too much then ******* nerf it. It's that simple.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-29 22:09:22 UTC
Pro TIps wrote:
Ridvanson wrote:
CCP Greyscale commented that comparing anything to incursions was unsound as they were potentially paying out to much anyway, and it wasn't a good benchmark.

Unless incursion-runners suddenly got their own special currency that isn't ISK, it is obviously sound to compare every form of income in the game to incursions.

If they nerf incursions, fine. Until that happens, whenever anyone wants ISK the smartest thing to do is log onto your highsec carebear alt and begin doing incursions for 150M+/hr plus concord LP.

That incursion ISK affects the price of every item in the game. PLEX, tritanium, blablah.

I don't have to tell any of you guys this, but I'd like to tell Greyscale, because you can't dismiss an ISK faucet simply because you think it might be paying too much. If he thinks it's paying too much then ******* nerf it. It's that simple.


Perhaps it's not that the incursion isk faucet is too good, just that everything else is just that bad.
B0T0
Dzieci we mgle
#8 - 2014-10-29 22:12:03 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Pro TIps wrote:
Ridvanson wrote:
CCP Greyscale commented that comparing anything to incursions was unsound as they were potentially paying out to much anyway, and it wasn't a good benchmark.

Unless incursion-runners suddenly got their own special currency that isn't ISK, it is obviously sound to compare every form of income in the game to incursions.

If they nerf incursions, fine. Until that happens, whenever anyone wants ISK the smartest thing to do is log onto your highsec carebear alt and begin doing incursions for 150M+/hr plus concord LP.

That incursion ISK affects the price of every item in the game. PLEX, tritanium, blablah.

I don't have to tell any of you guys this, but I'd like to tell Greyscale, because you can't dismiss an ISK faucet simply because you think it might be paying too much. If he thinks it's paying too much then ******* nerf it. It's that simple.


Perhaps it's not that the incursion isk faucet is too good, just that everything else is just that bad.

Nerfing one thing is faster that buffing everything else and more drama.

01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-10-29 22:13:55 UTC
B0T0 wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Pro TIps wrote:
Ridvanson wrote:
CCP Greyscale commented that comparing anything to incursions was unsound as they were potentially paying out to much anyway, and it wasn't a good benchmark.

Unless incursion-runners suddenly got their own special currency that isn't ISK, it is obviously sound to compare every form of income in the game to incursions.

If they nerf incursions, fine. Until that happens, whenever anyone wants ISK the smartest thing to do is log onto your highsec carebear alt and begin doing incursions for 150M+/hr plus concord LP.

That incursion ISK affects the price of every item in the game. PLEX, tritanium, blablah.

I don't have to tell any of you guys this, but I'd like to tell Greyscale, because you can't dismiss an ISK faucet simply because you think it might be paying too much. If he thinks it's paying too much then ******* nerf it. It's that simple.


Perhaps it's not that the incursion isk faucet is too good, just that everything else is just that bad.

Nerfing one thing is faster that buffing everything else and more drama.



and the incursion tears.........

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-10-29 22:17:22 UTC
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Viscis Breeze
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2014-10-30 01:09:21 UTC
I honestly don't know which is more scary for the future of wormhole space, CCP leaving wormholes alone or CCP trying to fix them.

Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#12 - 2014-10-30 02:46:16 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.


I'm thinking they are leaning on making them more siegeable (less blue balling). It tends to take a decent sized wormhole fleet to do them in c4's and below. That's mostly due to the amount of time it takes to reinforce (half hour to an hour or two per pos, not including encapping pos mods). Two plus if it's some type of stupid resiststar. Blowing through 80 million hit points is annoying. This is without dreads.

With the whole jump range changes going, killing pos's are going to be more relegated to a subcap fleet. This is more of a kspace issue that'll bleed into wormholes.

Yaay!!!!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-10-30 03:28:35 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.

I'm thinking they are leaning on making them more siegeable (less blue balling). It tends to take a decent sized wormhole fleet to do them in c4's and below. That's mostly due to the amount of time it takes to reinforce (half hour to an hour or two per pos, not including encapping pos mods). Two plus if it's some type of stupid resiststar. Blowing through 80 million hit points is annoying. This is without dreads.

With the whole jump range changes going, killing pos's are going to be more relegated to a subcap fleet. This is more of a kspace issue that'll bleed into wormholes.

what does ANY of that have to do with removing FFs?
just lower the HP if you want them easier to kill...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#14 - 2014-10-30 04:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hatshepsut IV
Jack Miton wrote:

...Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.



qft

Public Channel | Un.Welcome
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#15 - 2014-10-30 08:01:53 UTC
Viscis Breeze wrote:
I honestly don't know which is more scary for the future of wormhole space, CCP leaving wormholes alone or CCP trying to fix them.

Could it be too much to say "both as scary as one another"?

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-10-30 08:05:56 UTC
Steven Hackett
Overload This
#17 - 2014-10-30 11:59:05 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.

This.

Also, I know that offline towers might trigger peoples OCD, but it isn't broken? Buhu, you need to shoot a tower to set up at your moon, if you can't shoot a dead stick, you prob. shouldn't have that moon anyway. - Not broken, don't fix.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-10-30 12:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Chitsa Jason
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.


I cant believe I agree with Jack :)

Edit:

Technically they don't work very well. IE. Titan bumping for example. Still the shield mechanic is way better than any kind of stupid moreing (or whatever).

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#19 - 2014-10-30 13:16:48 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.


I cant believe I agree with Jack :)

Edit:

Technically they don't work very well. IE. Titan bumping for example. Still the shield mechanic is way better than any kind of stupid mooring (or whatever).


Fact is we don't know what CCP is going after regarding pos and force field, mooring, field reductions, or the mechanics (well maybe you do Chitsa). I usually like to see proposals of what they are thinking before I condemn it to "its sucks" rants, but I also know CCP tends to just do things in wormhole space regardless of what we say afterwards.

Are there better options besides force fields, I am sure their are. Are force fields broken or not functioning in any specific way. No. If there were methods of improving the entire mechanic as a whole, I have no problem with that.

"It ain't broken, don't fix it" does not apply here because EVERYTHING in Eve is broken. We just adapted to it.

Yaay!!!!
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-10-30 14:04:06 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Urg, same old garbage about 'POS tethering' instead of forcefields...
Just leave the fkn forcefields! it's the only part of the current POS system that works really well, move on.


I'll be honest I really think they will struggle to have teh fuctionality of a ff with other stuff.

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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