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Dev blog: Longer Queues Expected: Skill Training Above and Beyond 24 h

First post First post
Author
Deepfried DesireHelmet
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-10-29 00:36:58 UTC
i do know your exact plans for it, but if i could right click on ex. talwar mastery 3 and have the option add all available to skill that would be soo great!!!!!
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#82 - 2014-10-29 01:32:41 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
While I applaud the work that's gone into this I see several problems already of one was already addressed in regards to a lapse subscription. The other really big problem is, say for example you set a que for say a year, you find out you going to die within that year because of a noncurable disease, or you set one for five years, none of us don't even know if we'll be here in the next hour or day and the point I'm making is this whole thing is silly and a waste of resources.

I don't even know from one month to next next if I'll even maintain my subscription and therefore not buying into an otherwise decent feature.

This is really dumb and it looks like you're just trying to invent problems that don't exist.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#83 - 2014-10-29 01:38:53 UTC
Khem wrote:
it will reduce the need for player interaction. Surely a bad thing in a Multiplayer game.

Since when did you have to interact with anyone in order to set a skill queue?
Starden Arnolles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-10-29 01:50:56 UTC
This is one of the changes that I applaud. It promotes planning and efficiency, shows concern for our real life demands and uncertainties, and is imo all win.
Starden Arnolles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-10-29 01:57:00 UTC
Khem wrote:
I do not understand who really benefits from this change:

Players: If you play then you are paying attention. That is the point of the game. The 24 hour window is sufficient.

Multi Account holders: Relative to EVE's multitude of mind numbing detail, managing skill queues is trivial. Ok Maybe not trivial. But if you are a multi account holder you already have a time commitment above most.

CCP: Account holders who do not play do not need to log in often or barely at all. This probably keeps those early players who are loath to leave onboard.

I fit into the last category. A player since 2003. But I do not see the need for this and it will reduce the need for player interaction. Surely a bad thing in a Multiplayer game.

Is there a a bad side to this change. I'm not sure. It will help me. But I will log in less often. Is that good for EVE?



I would say that if someone needs something like forced repetitive logging into a skill queue to have contact with others, the root problem lies not with the skill queue.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#86 - 2014-10-29 03:43:26 UTC
Dont know if anyone else has suggested (thread TLDR and it's 3am here atm) but can the ability to import and export skill plans be added, as well as having remap break points added into said skill plans as well, break point being where you need to remap from percept/will to int/mem etc.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-10-29 04:45:11 UTC
Great update.....for those that have yearlong subscriptions. I guess CCP finally decided to throw constant customers a bone.....first good step in that direction - if there are more bones coming our way.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#88 - 2014-10-29 09:29:03 UTC
Khem wrote:
I do not understand who really benefits from this change:

Players: If you play then you are paying attention. That is the point of the game. The 24 hour window is sufficient.

Multi Account holders: Relative to EVE's multitude of mind numbing detail, managing skill queues is trivial. Ok Maybe not trivial. But if you are a multi account holder you already have a time commitment above most.

CCP: Account holders who do not play do not need to log in often or barely at all. This probably keeps those early players who are loath to leave onboard.

I fit into the last category. A player since 2003. But I do not see the need for this and it will reduce the need for player interaction. Surely a bad thing in a Multiplayer game.

Is there a a bad side to this change. I'm not sure. It will help me. But I will log in less often. Is that good for EVE?


Who really benefits from the change?

Free clue: Now players can queue, pay and forget! Blink

Paying subs >> actually playing the game, when population is down to 2008 levels.

Ancient Soule
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-10-29 11:40:22 UTC
Take this from a new player/CEO perspective and maybe it will make sense to people who have 10,000 hours of experience demolishing new players and new corps.

As this game is steadily losing subs, I feel it's a chance to grab a few new players who have paid for a year to set up their skill queue, for a very long period, pay for that period, then return at a much later date hoping that the game will have improved.

This is a feature that should have been obviously implemented ages ago, if they originally upgraded the skill queue to 24 hours, why did they have that restriction and not make the unlimited skill queue then?

From my perspective which experienced players would not understand, since they learned when EVE was in a different game state, experienced players bunch up into large networks through huge coalitions that are blue to each other and take on easy targets such as new players and corps. I have been recruiting constantly since I started in January, and have a total of 9 players including myself, 3 of us know each other as friends, so 6 real new recruits. ALL of these people are inactive. The other 50 or so people that have been in this corp were the following:

1) New players that quit EVE (the majority)
2) A few older players that quit EVE
3) Awoxers that gank and cause disruption internally
4) Spys that cause paranoia internally
5) Thieves

I would just like to say that this game is not difficult, it's actually the opposite. There are very few options as in how to play the game compared to other massive online games. It would be nice to have more than a few options as to how to play the game.

I played this game for a little while in 2009 and have some good memories from that. However 2014 I have been constantly targeted by large groups of experienced players like I killed their cat.

Are there any experienced alliances/corps that actually destroy each other instead of new players/corps? Maybe I'm just unlucky and everyone decided to target me because they don't like how my portrait looks.

Great feature, but at this point seems to be a way to try and trick people into sticking with the game.

I probably am going to stick with the game, but instead of trying to do something that's remotely interesting (wormhole space), I will use the game option that is currently available to me for a few years until I learn my lesson. Stare at rocks in high sec except for the other 99% of the time I will be at war because our scoreboards scream "easy targets, easy kills!!! MOAR!!!".

*end rant*

Yes I suck and am a noob, and I'm thinking about playing WoW instead. However I have tried to coexist in this game with the community and they reject us and instead use me as meat for easy kills (the more tempting option).
Maul555
Xen Investments
#90 - 2014-10-29 12:03:34 UTC
As someone who keeps a training plan that is years long, I applaud and eagerly await this glorious new feature!
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#91 - 2014-10-29 12:58:08 UTC
Ancient Soule wrote:
Take this from a new player/CEO perspective and maybe it will make sense to people who have 10,000 hours of experience demolishing new players and new corps.

As this game is steadily losing subs, I feel it's a chance to grab a few new players who have paid for a year to set up their skill queue, for a very long period, pay for that period, then return at a much later date hoping that the game will have improved.

This is a feature that should have been obviously implemented ages ago, if they originally upgraded the skill queue to 24 hours, why did they have that restriction and not make the unlimited skill queue then?

From my perspective which experienced players would not understand, since they learned when EVE was in a different game state, experienced players bunch up into large networks through huge coalitions that are blue to each other and take on easy targets such as new players and corps. I have been recruiting constantly since I started in January, and have a total of 9 players including myself, 3 of us know each other as friends, so 6 real new recruits. ALL of these people are inactive. The other 50 or so people that have been in this corp were the following:

1) New players that quit EVE (the majority)
2) A few older players that quit EVE
3) Awoxers that gank and cause disruption internally
4) Spys that cause paranoia internally
5) Thieves

I would just like to say that this game is not difficult, it's actually the opposite. There are very few options as in how to play the game compared to other massive online games. It would be nice to have more than a few options as to how to play the game.

I played this game for a little while in 2009 and have some good memories from that. However 2014 I have been constantly targeted by large groups of experienced players like I killed their cat.

Are there any experienced alliances/corps that actually destroy each other instead of new players/corps? Maybe I'm just unlucky and everyone decided to target me because they don't like how my portrait looks.

Great feature, but at this point seems to be a way to try and trick people into sticking with the game.

I probably am going to stick with the game, but instead of trying to do something that's remotely interesting (wormhole space), I will use the game option that is currently available to me for a few years until I learn my lesson. Stare at rocks in high sec except for the other 99% of the time I will be at war because our scoreboards scream "easy targets, easy kills!!! MOAR!!!".

*end rant*

Yes I suck and am a noob, and I'm thinking about playing WoW instead. However I have tried to coexist in this game with the community and they reject us and instead use me as meat for easy kills (the more tempting option).


Well, this is a game where some people will throw away a RL friendship, 6 years of playing together and 2 Fanfests by backstabbing you for just 500 million ISK...
Ptakk
Roid Robbers Inc.
#92 - 2014-10-29 13:13:28 UTC
Nice first step. Now why don't you consider actually reducing the training times - the skills in my opinion take too long to train.
20 years to train all skills in game is too long! Half them you know it makes sense!
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#93 - 2014-10-29 13:17:23 UTC
This has been mentioned before but not really answered:

How about adding the facility to inject skills that you cannot currently train, but where the pre-requisites are already present in the skill queue.

At the moment, you have to change to a different skill while a pre-req finishes, then inject the higher skill later.

Now that you have done some work on the queue, it would be so much easier if we could just add all the skills required.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.

Luke Damon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-10-29 13:19:17 UTC
The way this is being positioned is as an incremental feature increase. First there was no queue, then there was one that was 24 hours long, and now there is one that is essentially unlimited but which for "safety" reasons (what does that even mean?) they have to limit to 50 entries. I don't criticize the 50 entries thing. What I'm suggesting is that the tone of the blog entries, making out that this is a natural and staged feature progression that was essentially intended all along, belies the fact that this is something CCP has steadfastly refused to do for ten years.

The need to even have any sort of skill queue could have easily and elegantly been removed from the very beginning by simply causing skill points to accumulate whether or not a skill was in training. They would accumulate into an unused pool when a skill wasn't in training, and when a skill to train is later selected, training of that skill would (first) draw from the points in the pool (adjusting the number based on what attributes that skill uses as primary and secondary). Easy peasy. No queue ever needed again.

The mechanics of how they should implement this huge policy shift is really neither here nor there, though. The point is that it is a huge policy shift, and being ten years past time when they should have done it begs the question why now? There is no greater player sentiment today demanding this than there was the day Eve went Online. If it was player-motivated it would have happened ten years ago. This is not about giving something to players.

So if it isn't about giving something to players, what is it about? It's about that lovely little requirement that if you or I ever want to train our alts simultaneously, we've got to essentially pay for another account. This is about CCP selling PLEX. Unlimited queue makes this more attractive since we can dump a huge skill queue on one and leave it while we play the other. This is all about CCP's profits, and not even a little about what is good for players.

So while I, like most everyone else, certainly intend to take advantage of the new "feature", I do not join the hallelujah chorus of "thank-you"s and "wow this is great". Having a broomstick removed from one's backside after ten years may indeed induce a feeling of relief. It still begs the question, why did you shaft us for ten years.

Let me be the first, then, to respond to this "feature" the way I think we all should:

IT'S ABOUT BLOODY TIME!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#95 - 2014-10-29 17:09:28 UTC
Khem wrote:
I do not understand who really benefits from this change:

Players: If you play then you are paying attention. That is the point of the game. The 24 hour window is sufficient.

Multi Account holders: Relative to EVE's multitude of mind numbing detail, managing skill queues is trivial. Ok Maybe not trivial. But if you are a multi account holder you already have a time commitment above most.

CCP: Account holders who do not play do not need to log in often or barely at all. This probably keeps those early players who are loath to leave onboard.

I fit into the last category. A player since 2003. But I do not see the need for this and it will reduce the need for player interaction. Surely a bad thing in a Multiplayer game.

Is there a a bad side to this change. I'm not sure. It will help me. But I will log in less often. Is that good for EVE?

The extended queue is especially useful to new capsuleers, as they can easily fill a 24 hour queue with dozens of skills. An average level 3 skill takes about 3 hours.

I believe the blog also states that it makes possible the future ability of being able to drag-and-drop ship masteries into the queue.
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2014-10-29 21:25:24 UTC
Best change coming in Phoebe so far - pluswan for that.
Right on the level of the EFT format import - now if only we could import our EVEMon skillques .....
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#97 - 2014-10-29 21:28:18 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, this is a game where some people will throw away a RL friendship, 6 years of playing together and 2 Fanfests by backstabbing you for just 500 million ISK...

Those people are idiots, those things can be milked for so much more than 500m.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2014-10-29 22:24:46 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/fRvUroK.jpg

why are my pilots being fed these lies. do you know how hard it is to unravel so much dogma with every single pilot in my command?
PerrinBash
Living the Dream
#99 - 2014-10-29 22:42:10 UTC
Right, so with dumbing down of eve your now allowing any active account to unlimited (basically) training, changed all the reprocessing, allow all of hi sec harassment and bumping as fair play, revamp of all manufacturing and research, making most skills to level 5 a thing of past, and don't allow freighters mid slots or rigs, or any capacity to defend themselves.
Your moving toward the end game, lets just make it happen. Select the top 15% of SP players to get jovian technology and let us wreck eve, or....just keep chipping away at it bit by bit.
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2014-10-30 10:05:59 UTC
PerrinBash wrote:
Right, so with dumbing down of eve your now allowing any active account to unlimited (basically) training, changed all the reprocessing, allow all of hi sec harassment and bumping as fair play, revamp of all manufacturing and research, making most skills to level 5 a thing of past, and don't allow freighters mid slots or rigs, or any capacity to defend themselves.
Your moving toward the end game, lets just make it happen. Select the top 15% of SP players to get jovian technology and let us wreck eve, or....just keep chipping away at it bit by bit.


Seriously? Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V ?

Please consider another option, thanks