Intergalactic Summit

I believe the Federation needs a good wallop and be brought to its knees, by destroyed I shall clarify...it requires a forced massive change of its underlying corrupt leadership of Noble families from way back past to be permanently kept from power. Jacen Roden is a good start...a Capsuleer himself making President.
I do not need to be reminded of the Caldari Prime history so many decades ago....at this point in time it is irrelevant to current times as Caldari Prime is firmly in the control of the State once again, supervised by Ishukone one of the Mega-Corps.
Now as to the personal attacks against you Ms Kim, i have watched for some time now and it seems many times over you do excerberate a certain flavor of hatefullness.
Such as you last remark there....
You are a soldier through and through....you should remain a soldier for soldiers are a necessary tool to project the power of any Regime.
Though I can respect your Candor and attempts at public speech, and politicking....I must come to the conclusion that you are no good at it. Best to remain a ships Captain because that it is where you seem to have strength.

I don't often do this, but I feel I should interject something here to show you that the Gallente are not the oppressive overlords you have suggested we are. Caldari Prime is under Ishukone management because of an agreement between the Federation and the State. The Federation destroyed the Shiigeru and was in a position to take full authority over Caldari Prime but chose instead to cooperate with the State and return the planet to its people.

Are we entirely innocent of that events that led up to this situation? Of course not. But where we could have "taken what was yours" by military might, we chose instead to take a different path.

I do not think you are an unreasonable man, but I do believe you have a somewhat cloudy view of the Federation and its people and one that is not entirely warranted. Perhaps a discussion in person would do us both well?

Mister Antolliere,

You flatter me, and are very kind to do so. I fear you perhaps give me a little too much credit, though, however - Very few people will wade into a debate without some sort of agenda to ultimately push on the topic, and I am no exception, including in this instance. If you think I'm speaking with total neutrality, it's likely simply because the conversations here and in the other thread have been sort of bleakly black and white in terms of the positions involved, which leaves little room for nuance in opinion. Well, that, and the fact that this might not have been going long enough for us to find something specific to butt heads over just yet.

Noticing bias in someone whose point of view neither drastically conforms to or goes against your own is rather like walking into a room with a small gas leak; Everything appears in utter harmony for a fair while, but if you linger long enough, you probably will eventually start to notice the smell. And if you should strike a match in the wrong place before that point, you might find yourself caught awkwardly off guard.

Thank you, regardless, though. And don't put yourself down - I think you've spoken more then reasonably.

You talk like profit is just the selfish business of making numbers climb on a graph and forget the true meaning of the word. The idea is that somebody PROFITS. Corporations are, like any other human creation, made up of people. In the State it isn't just financiers who own stock in Corporations, it is the everyday worker. Stock profits drive savings. They drive pensions that fund retirement income.

So, yeah, we seek profits. Profits mean that what you're doing is working. When I make profits, my employees can relax in the knowledge that their families are being taken care of. Their children are going to school. I lost two people this weekend - profits mean the difference between caring for those left behind and making them disenfranchised.

The Federation must be destroyed, Mr. Antolliere.
You have written, that:

But this is not true.
The Caldari were economically forced into the Federation. Our ancestors did a huge mistake, signing this vicious alliance instead of standing tall and saying gallenteans sounding: "NO." Yes, it would cut profits greatly, but it could have saved millions of lives. When our ancestors understood it, and said their "NO", it was already too late. Gallentean hegemony has ensnared our world like a huge greedy octopus and it didn't want to let its prey to go. And we are still paying for that mistake, that Caldari "willingly" were forced to sign that Federation charter.

Creating the Federation was the only way to maintain growing Gallentean hegemony. It was signed not with just Caldari, but it was signed with all other nations, practically encircling the Caldari to force us to sign it as well. Only forming of the Federation, GALLENTEAN Federation has legally allowed gallenteans to maintain economical and political superiority of other states, that entered this federation. It was formed that way, that the most benefits would end in hands of gallenteans, instead of all other nations,

and this is why the Federation must be destroyed.

I have taken some time to contemplate your words most carefully Ms Kim, to scour and extract the facts form your reply to mylast transmission as such I have come to the following conclusions which I will try to explain.

In the subject about killing the Federation President please be aware that when the State does the Vice President takes over and should the State kill the Vice President then the next in line takes over and so on down the chain of command which stretches over several Factions with the Federation
Before you state that it is only the Gallente faction of the federation that you wish the State to attack please be aware also that it is the way of the federation that if you attack one you attack the whole.
As for destroying the Senate they to for every individual in it would have their own chain of command that you would have to hunt down as well and I don’t even want to list how many that would be.
Now you also said about destroying the main headquarters and liens of communication while this would work it would only be a temporary thing as there would no doubt be back up lines of communications and new bases of command can be established in other places as long as there are officers to relay orders.

But let’s just say the State somehow manages to assassinate the entire chain of command and the whole infrastructure of the Federation doesn’t fall apart you will still need to force the people to comply, if you use force then you will have groups who will rebel and set up their own resistance groups and while most might be crushed under boot by the Sate there will all ways be those who will be more organised and start using Gorilla Tactics.
There is also the variable that these small groups will come together to for a stronger force which brings us to your next point about the destruction of Stations and world that refuse to comply with the state’s mind set.
While a Station with a considerable effort can be eventually destroyed to destroy a planet would be hard to if not improbable to achieve even, and no bringing in a fleet of titan’s would not work there are multiple numbers of reasons for this but the largest reason would be Concord who would with the use of the new vessels supplied by The Jove make short work of them.

The more feasible action would be the State would try to consolidate its control and presence in the Defeated Federation territory, now as for handing everything over to Concord what pray tell happens if Concord turns around and says no you conquered it you have to deal with it….then what?
Another variable what if Concord intervenes and demands both sides stand down and demands both sides mediates between them?
Now as for the fleets let’s see you remove all forms of communications from them and fleet command they will simply go dark and operate under clandestine protocols using hit and run tactics and mostly likely become the rallying point for resistance by the Federations citizens which in turn give rise to resistance groups planet side.

BUT even if against all the odds you manage to do all this and destroy all that the Federation stands for you would still need to win over the minds of the people, a material object or icon is easier to destroy than an ideal.
If it were so simple to do so I’m sure Amarr would have defeated the Minmatar but they haven’t which shows proof positive that an Ideal is neigh on implausible to destroy.
As such the State would never truly be able to utterly destroy the federation as it embers would remain and from those the possibility no matter how slim and minute would remain for it to someday rise again.
But then this is just my own perspective of this and doubt it's of much relevance.

The Federation must be destroyed, Mr. Elle,

The destruction of political entities should not just finish with top ones, the President and Senate, but start with them and follow down, to vice presidents, offices, headquarters, and, most importantly, to the structures that hold the democracy together, that allow voting and count these votes. Breaking down communications between Federal planets will help in this greatly.

Generally, when their govenment will be demolished, war criminals (President, Senators and those from HQ, who planned operation Highlander) detained and executed, government structures incapacitated, so there won't be anyone to take position of Senators and President, as well as not having means electing new ones, the Federation will simply cease to exist without even capitulation. It will be simply destroyed, as bloody hand of Caldari vengeance will mercilessly sweep through rotten to the core democratic institutions, squishing and tearing apart everything that could even remotely look as a stem of new growing gallentean monstrosity.


But they will represent no threat to us, if we won't occupy their worlds. (And I don't see enough resources of the State to occupy such large territories, the only way for Caldari to occupy them is their desire to join and incorporation into our structures, so they can manage themselves with just guidance from the State, if they allow themselves to be guided by us) They can do whatever they want. And there will be no Caldai to attack. We will just cleanse them from gallentean influence and withdraw completely.


Then simply withdraw anyway and let the Winds decide their fate. If these people will be strong, they will survive. If they aren't, then let the Maker take the dues.


We will purify the nations of the Federation from humiliating gallentean influence. We will leave them to be as they want - but without gallenteans. Without these rotten ideals, forced on these poor peoples. It will be up to them, to open their eyes and look at the world with clean sight, without federals pushing into their heads lots of democracy propaganda. Or to cling to remaining gallentean rot and fall down into bottomless pit of indecency, degradation and self-destruction. This will be a great test for the peoples, it will be cruel and brutal, but it will determine if they deserve to live, if they deserve a place in the space, and return to the stars.


Thank you, Mr. Elle, and I am well aware of it. We don't hold any ill intentions against nations in the Federation. But while the Federation exists, they will be forced to fight for gallenteans and against us...

And this is why the Federation must be destroyed.

Are we seriously discussing something as irrelevant and impossible as the destruction of an empire? It would take a force beyond anything capsuleer are capable of at the moment, and the other empires don't seem to keen on killing each other off for us. Not to mention CONCORD intervention (who were founded by the empire's to prevent just that situation). We are stuck with each other, you can deal with it or commit yourself to be biomassed. Threads like this don't do anyone any good, they just make everyone look like an asshat

and even then, I'm willing to bet the projected loss of life (on both sides) was appaling.

Woe be unto any who forsake the timeless truth that pride oft comes before the fall.