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Dev blog: All That Is Gold Does Not Glitter - Data Sites, Expeditions

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Author
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#261 - 2014-10-23 10:21:58 UTC
Arkolino wrote:
Will the expeditions from anomalies be adjusted also? Like the chance and the level of ded they escalate to ?

Oh and if you are at it, can you please fix some DEDs like blood raider's 3/10 that don't allow microwarpdrives?



For the expeditions themselves, their potential to spawn has been increased and their 'bosses' (found in the last part of the expedition) have had their loot tables buffed.
Spawn paths have not been adjusted, so that means that the same expeditions will still occur from the same dungeons to keep things familiar.

I'll have a look through the sites now for the MWD issue and fix them as I go.

Team Genesis

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#262 - 2014-10-23 10:40:40 UTC
Quote:
For the expeditions themselves, their potential to spawn has been increased

Nice. +1 for this.

Quote:
and their 'bosses' (found in the last part of the expedition) have had their loot tables buffed.

Won't matter that much, because a lot of people will still skip the lowsec part of the escalation.

Quote:
Spawn paths have not been adjusted, so that means that the same expeditions will still occur from the same dungeons to keep things familiar.

That's a bummer. And i don't get the explanation to be honest.
"We're going to keep the inconsistency, because people are used to it." ?

Quote:
I'll have a look through the sites now for the MWD issue and fix them as I go.

FINALLY. +1 Big smile
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#263 - 2014-10-23 11:52:11 UTC
Expeditions are now displayed in the Journal by their main title, not their description. (Eg: Angel Kickbacks)

You can still view the description by right clicking on the Journal entry and selecting View Details.

Team Genesis

Gorr Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#264 - 2014-10-23 11:56:29 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Expeditions are now displayed in the Journal by their main title, not their description. (Eg: Angel Kickbacks)

You can still view the description by right clicking on the Journal entry and selecting View Details.

Any chance to be able get "Warp to at range" by right-clicking the Journal entry (bookmark?) of the expedition?
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#265 - 2014-10-23 12:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RedDawn
Gorr Shakor wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Expeditions are now displayed in the Journal by their main title, not their description. (Eg: Angel Kickbacks)

You can still view the description by right clicking on the Journal entry and selecting View Details.

Any chance to be able get "Warp to at range" by right-clicking the Journal entry (bookmark?) of the expedition?


One of the things we have on our list is to allow fleet commanders to warp the fleet into the expedition. This could be an addition to that. No guarantees though for Phoebe but it's on our backlog.

Team Genesis

Arkolino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#266 - 2014-10-23 13:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkolino
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Arkolino wrote:
Will the expeditions from anomalies be adjusted also? Like the chance and the level of ded they escalate to ?

Oh and if you are at it, can you please fix some DEDs like blood raider's 3/10 that don't allow microwarpdrives?



For the expeditions themselves, their potential to spawn has been increased and their 'bosses' (found in the last part of the expedition) have had their loot tables buffed.
Spawn paths have not been adjusted, so that means that the same expeditions will still occur from the same dungeons to keep things familiar.

I'll have a look through the sites now for the MWD issue and fix them as I go.



Nice, thank you.

But actualy I was reffering to the escalations from anomalies, like refuge, den, hideaway. These escalate into rated DEDs. Do you tamper with these also ? Like increasing the chance of getting them ?

PS. Oh and please don't forget to also increase the completion timer of the Serpentis and Angel 6/10 expeditions (Angel Mineral Acquisition Outpost - Part 2 and Serpentis Logistical Outpost part2 ) .Sometimes It's a pain that i have only 1 day to finish it up, because I am not allways prepared to go to null sec to complete it.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#267 - 2014-10-23 13:59:57 UTC
Arkolino wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Arkolino wrote:
Will the expeditions from anomalies be adjusted also? Like the chance and the level of ded they escalate to ?

Oh and if you are at it, can you please fix some DEDs like blood raider's 3/10 that don't allow microwarpdrives?



For the expeditions themselves, their potential to spawn has been increased and their 'bosses' (found in the last part of the expedition) have had their loot tables buffed.
Spawn paths have not been adjusted, so that means that the same expeditions will still occur from the same dungeons to keep things familiar.

I'll have a look through the sites now for the MWD issue and fix them as I go.



Nice, thank you.

But actualy I was reffering to the escalations from anomalies, like refuge, den, hideaway. These escalate into rated DEDs. Do you tamper with these also ? Like increasing the chance of getting them ?

PS. Oh and please don't forget to also increase the completion timer of the Serpentis and Angel 6/10 expeditions (Angel Mineral Acquisition Outpost - Part 2 and Serpentis Logistical Outpost part2 ) .Sometimes It's a pain that i have only 1 day to finish it up, because I am not allways prepared to go to null sec to complete it.


And if possible fix it so that if you get a DED 4/10 from a high sec Anom you won't be sent to low sec. There is no loot in a 4/10 I want so bad that I will go to low sec to get it.

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!

CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#268 - 2014-10-23 14:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RedDawn
Sam Spock wrote:
Arkolino wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Arkolino wrote:
Will the expeditions from anomalies be adjusted also? Like the chance and the level of ded they escalate to ?

Oh and if you are at it, can you please fix some DEDs like blood raider's 3/10 that don't allow microwarpdrives?



For the expeditions themselves, their potential to spawn has been increased and their 'bosses' (found in the last part of the expedition) have had their loot tables buffed.
Spawn paths have not been adjusted, so that means that the same expeditions will still occur from the same dungeons to keep things familiar.

I'll have a look through the sites now for the MWD issue and fix them as I go.



Nice, thank you.

But actualy I was reffering to the escalations from anomalies, like refuge, den, hideaway. These escalate into rated DEDs. Do you tamper with these also ? Like increasing the chance of getting them ?

PS. Oh and please don't forget to also increase the completion timer of the Serpentis and Angel 6/10 expeditions (Angel Mineral Acquisition Outpost - Part 2 and Serpentis Logistical Outpost part2 ) .Sometimes It's a pain that i have only 1 day to finish it up, because I am not allways prepared to go to null sec to complete it.


And if possible fix it so that if you get a DED 4/10 from a high sec Anom you won't be sent to low sec. There is no loot in a 4/10 I want so bad that I will go to low sec to get it.


During the changes to the system jumps required to continue expeditions, we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.
Thus, expeditions will check all systems within it's radius.

Edit: Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog but will not be released with Phoebe.
(Initial design is to increase it to 48 hours)

Team Genesis

Kateryna I
Mental Disruption
#269 - 2014-10-23 14:41:14 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:


During the changes to the system jumps required to continue expeditions, we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.
Thus, expeditions will check all systems within it's radius.

Edit: Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog but will not be released with Phoebe.
(Initial design is to increase it to 48 hours)


48 hours?
Every mission runner gets 7 days, Epic Arcs never time out, yet escalations will be still forced into 24/48h
People have lives you know, if I get an escalation on Sunday evening it means either not being able to go to sleep OR loose it.

7 days please, people do have lives outside of game and 24 or 48h is way to restrictive.

Thanks

Polish PVP corp looking for members to have some fun together. Join me! Check our KB

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#270 - 2014-10-23 15:23:33 UTC
Quote:
we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.

That's really great news! Big smile Thanks for that!

Quote:
Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog

As a part of this, it would be nice, if we had an option to hide/delete specific escalations from the journal list, to prevent the list from getting overstuffed. Would be great, if you could think about that.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#271 - 2014-10-23 18:38:49 UTC
Kateryna I wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:


During the changes to the system jumps required to continue expeditions, we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.
Thus, expeditions will check all systems within it's radius.

Edit: Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog but will not be released with Phoebe.
(Initial design is to increase it to 48 hours)


48 hours?
Every mission runner gets 7 days, Epic Arcs never time out, yet escalations will be still forced into 24/48h
People have lives you know, if I get an escalation on Sunday evening it means either not being able to go to sleep OR loose it.

7 days please, people do have lives outside of game and 24 or 48h is way to restrictive.

Thanks


Agreed. 7 days like in other areas would be better.
Ama Scelesta
#272 - 2014-10-23 19:10:02 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:


During the changes to the system jumps required to continue expeditions, we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.
Thus, expeditions will check all systems within it's radius.

Edit: Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog but will not be released with Phoebe.
(Initial design is to increase it to 48 hours)



Why 48hours? Does increasing the timer more cause problems? You clearly feel 24 hours isn't a high enough value. Did you come up with compelling reasons not to increase it to the level every other PVE content has or did you not have any actual design behind the number chosen and you just chose a slightly longer timer at random because we kept asking for an extension? The choice just seems inconsistent without a reason from a player perspective, so I'd be interested in knowing why CCP sees it at the sweet spot for this particular content.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#273 - 2014-10-24 10:22:34 UTC
Ama Scelesta wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:


During the changes to the system jumps required to continue expeditions, we've also removed the code that forced expeditions to occur in lower sec systems than you received them in.
Thus, expeditions will check all systems within it's radius.

Edit: Upping the completion timer is something on our backlog but will not be released with Phoebe.
(Initial design is to increase it to 48 hours)



Why 48hours? Does increasing the timer more cause problems? You clearly feel 24 hours isn't a high enough value. Did you come up with compelling reasons not to increase it to the level every other PVE content has or did you not have any actual design behind the number chosen and you just chose a slightly longer timer at random because we kept asking for an extension? The choice just seems inconsistent without a reason from a player perspective, so I'd be interested in knowing why CCP sees it at the sweet spot for this particular content.


I want to reiterate that this is just the "initial design"... nothing is set in stone regarding the increase of Expedition timers as of yet.
As for the reasons this specific length of time was mentioned is due to a particularly bad exploit that was severely abused by players which we are obviously not very eager to re-introduce.

Team Genesis

PIRJANIN
Space Knights Templar
Jita Holding Inc.
#274 - 2014-10-24 16:38:10 UTC
I Do not want to sound whiny or discontent, I just wonder - IS IT REALLY THAT HARD? I mean, most of these small issues like changing escalation timers, drop rates, escalation range etc etc..
Quote:
WHY DOES IT TAKE THAT LONG?
For many players these small things are important and make a big bunch of difference than it comes to the moment of decision of whether to stay in this game or not. Can you explain to me, and US the players, what is the problem with fixing all these things at a faster rate? For what I know (and I may be wrong) these changes require minor editing in the code. Possibly, one sole person might be able to do most of it in one day.

I just do not want to wait for few more patches for these simple issues to be solved, I want em solved, I want em solved fast, so you could work on some NEW content (like MORDU sites) for us and the game. Exploration always requires new content like new kinds of sites. Mission runners, for instance are getting burners.

Special question for DRONE SITES, can we know if they gonna be fixed in any way? Done a big bunch of em, full escalations, all escalations actually. And none of em gave to me over 150mills of profit. These sites are senseless, no point of wasting time on em if you know that in BEST CASE SCENARIO you are getting 150-200mill for over 2 hours of running em.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#275 - 2014-10-25 14:56:29 UTC
PIRJANIN wrote:
I Do not want to sound whiny or discontent, I just wonder - IS IT REALLY THAT HARD? I mean, most of these small issues like changing escalation timers, drop rates, escalation range etc etc..
Quote:
WHY DOES IT TAKE THAT LONG?
For many players these small things are important and make a big bunch of difference than it comes to the moment of decision of whether to stay in this game or not. Can you explain to me, and US the players, what is the problem with fixing all these things at a faster rate? For what I know (and I may be wrong) these changes require minor editing in the code. Possibly, one sole person might be able to do most of it in one day.

I just do not want to wait for few more patches for these simple issues to be solved, I want em solved, I want em solved fast, so you could work on some NEW content (like MORDU sites) for us and the game. Exploration always requires new content like new kinds of sites. Mission runners, for instance are getting burners.

Special question for DRONE SITES, can we know if they gonna be fixed in any way? Done a big bunch of em, full escalations, all escalations actually. And none of em gave to me over 150mills of profit. These sites are senseless, no point of wasting time on em if you know that in BEST CASE SCENARIO you are getting 150-200mill for over 2 hours of running em.


I currently skip all drone sites because they are trash compared to sansha sites or even just grinding belts in lowsec for mordus spawns. I am by no means a super experienced site runner though.
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#276 - 2014-10-25 15:39:02 UTC
I run quite alot of relic sites. I am quite exited about the data site boost but even more so about the new type of sites that was hinted at EVE Vegas keynote. When can we expect a devblog on theese so I can get even more exited?

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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#277 - 2014-10-25 20:35:07 UTC
Fozzie mentioned something about new exploration content and more difficult probing at EvE Vegas. More diffcult to probe, those new sites or currently existing ones too? More difficult probing would be a good threshold for sites in null.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#278 - 2014-10-27 18:45:17 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
I want to reiterate that this is just the "initial design"... nothing is set in stone regarding the increase of Expedition timers as of yet.
As for the reasons this specific length of time was mentioned is due to a particularly bad exploit that was severely abused by players which we are obviously not very eager to re-introduce.

And what exactly was the exploit?

Having the expedition timer reset when the player warped to the site in my opinion wasn't the exploit. I believe that game mechanic could only be done for 7 days, after which the timer wouldn't reset.

The actual exploit is the Overseer / Commander NPC's could be scanned which gave players the ability to view the contents of possible loot drop. If the loot drop wasn't favorable they would just simply go back the next day and rescan the Overseer / Commander again until they viewed good loot.

Most explorers I know didn't do that since it required them to spend more time in a lower security sector of space, thus missing the opportunity to gain more expeditions.

The ability to view the contents is still an issue which is also a major problem with containers at Data and Relic sites.

Players scan the contents, bypass low level loot and only access those containing high level loot. Due to the despawn mechanic associated with those sites being changed, players now find half completed sites filled with low level loot.


TL,DR :

Allow 24 hr expedition timer to be reset upon warping to site for 7 days.
Remove ability to scan contents of Relic / Data Containers and Overseer / Commander NPC's..
Enable Relic / Data sites to automatically despawn when player leaves after interacting with the site.



DMC
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#279 - 2014-10-27 21:50:24 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Remove ability to scan contents of Relic / Data Containers and Overseer / Commander NPC's..
Enable Relic / Data sites to automatically despawn when player leaves after interacting with the site.

Sites are being farmed now. I saw tengu some time ago that landed on site i've been doing (i was cloaked). Explorer scan both "ruins" cans (it was angel temple site) and warped away. i've checked them after, there was no worth loot in them.
Anyway i put away cargo scanner to check timing on sites. Most of them can be done in 8-10 minutes, 6 cans average ( I was doing it in tengu with100MW afterburner so i was slower and less agile than covops frigs).

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#280 - 2014-10-28 00:23:04 UTC
Ama Scelesta wrote:

Faction materials added - Yay? Is there a real market for these?


"If you build it, they will come".

Currently there's not much market for those because the price of components outweighs the value of the end result. it's why I kept most of my COSMOS BPCs untouched.
my hisec char stopped doing COSMOS missions because the BPCs were unusable. With faction components added to data sites, the price for built storyline items would drop to expected levels.

Samsara Toldya wrote:

Do I really have to write down all signature IDs to a piece of paper because EvE istn't able to remember "signature ID ABC-123 is ignored"?


Or you could use this nice EVE in-game accessory called Notes?
Not the right answer, I know, but a workaround.

Eugene Kerner wrote:

The background stories always make 70% of the PVE.


...until you read them for the 253rd time.

Damjan Fox wrote:
Quote:
Consider making the Data/Relic Site cans unscannable with Cargo Scanners


+1 for this. Very easy way to prevent cherry picking.


Yes but no.
Currently the loot table is completely screwed, some high difficulty can are literally empty while lower difficulty ones might give 90% of all loot value in a site. Unscannable cans would have to respect the rule of "harder means better". if not, then they should be scannable.

"What if each scan counted as a failed access attempt?"
I like this. Makes sense and fits well within the game mechanics. However, repeating scans should not change the count:
"Scan once or more would make the can only accept one hack attempt"