Intergalactic Summit

That was a lot of words, Kim.

I didn't read any of it.

I am not stating outright that this is false, simply that I am unable to find a historical reference to it. Would your provide where you have drawn this assertion that the Federation actively and habitually redistributed wealth away from the Caldari?



The Caldari established hidden colonies for the sole benefit of themselves, to the exclusion of all other ethnicities and peoples of the Federation. The big mistake was doing so in the first place, it was a violation of trust and trade. Furthermore, they were discovered by a Gallente scout vessel.



The Federation response was to insist that these colonies be placed under the same authority and regulation as all other businesses and colonies in the Federation. A Federation that, at this point, the Caldari were a part of and, despite growing disparity between our two peoples, had helped form and benefited from.



When the Caldari Megacorporations refused to participate, they immediately seceded from the Federation and blockaded the stargates leading to their hidden colonies because, as history confirms, it was where the majority of their military infrastructure was located. (Which creates a lot of questions about the purpose for their existence to begin with, but we'll leave speculation out of it). This action effectively created a militarized border between the Federation and the Caldari military assets, what would eventually become the State. Now dealing with a hostile military force in the same system and hidden military assets, the Federation blockaded Caldari Prime to avoid further relocation of resources and assets to feed a potentially aggressive military force. In all of this, the Federation sought to bring the Caldari back to negotiations rather than have an outbreak of war.



You have asserted, without factual base, that the blockade was intended to starve the Caldari. The blockade was established to prevent the relocation and establishment of a hostile military presence from the now Caldari-Gallente border to the doorstep of the Federation using Caldari Prime as a staging ground.

[Continued below]

First lets put everything in proper perspective. At the time, the claim that the bombing of an entire city and the deaths of nearly half a million Gallente civilians was merely the act of a terrorist group could not be verified. What could be verified was that in a very short period of time (a matter of days, to be precise) the Caldari went from a chartered member of the Federation, to being discovered as having built hidden infrastructure and assets outside of Federation purview, to an immediate withdrawal from the Federation upon their discovery, to a military blockade of these once-hidden assets, to the bombing of half-a-million civilians.

Do I think bombarding the planet was the best response? No, but hindsight gives us perspective we did not have. It was an understandable response given the situation at the time.

Now what we can let sink in is that the situation escalated due to the actions of both peoples, not just one and that no matter how you wish to paint history, the first casualties were Gallente and this was prior to any formal declaration of war or intent.



The Caldari chose to evacuate their home world when it became apparent that despite the advantages they had built for themselves and the disarray in the Federation, they would still lose a war. The strategic thing to do was withdraw from their greatest point of weakness, Caldari Prime, and relocate to their fortified position behind their militarized border.



"Criminal" is a very subjective word in this kind of discussion. While the Federation's response may not have been the best response at the time, we could go back and forth for days about which side engaged in criminal activities that escalated the situation and neither of us would come to an agreement.

To stick to the more objective facts, the Gallente population was divided over the response long before the actions of Admiral Tovil-Toba. In fact, the entire government underwent restructuring not once, but twice, during these events due to civil unrest and divided opinions.

Lastly, if you're going to use the Malkalen Disaster as a jab in your conclusion, which the Federation has stated repeatedly was the act of a single man (and which eventually led to a renewed conflict between our people and the Empyrean Wars), then you would have to acknowledge that the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenoir was an understandable escalation to the original conflict and stop using it as a shield to hide behind or a finger to point. The difference between Malkalen and Nouvelle is that both sides suffered casualties in Malkalen and both sides were involved in relief efforts, the same cannot be said of Nouvelle.

The Federation is wrong....it is a thief. It attempted to force Caldari into subjugation and steal their culture away into oblivion as if it had never been.
The Caldari, took steps centuries before the Federation was ever born to ensure this would not occur, the Leadership then, the Isuuaya's saw the Gallente for what they truly are and would become.

Though I am a capsuler now, no more deserving of a parentage than a labartory can provide, MY original birth mother was Achuran. Our homeworld is Saisio. When the Caldari were forced to seceede from the Federation we accepted them.

The Fact that the Caldari are self sufficient and better in most cases than the Gallente whom rely on others for their wealth and luxuries is the root cause of irrational Gallentean fear.

I do not agree with Ms Kim that outright genocide (seems what she preaches) is the way to go. Yet I do agree their Goverment must be eradicated.....even if that means Ethnic Gallente be forced from space.

I am Achuran, I am a member of the Caldari State, I say veerily unto you Mr. Antolliere that you and your ilk can not have what we have, not even in taxes. Further attempts will always be met at the end of a muzzle.
Since the Gallente will not relent, then it is up to the State and those loyal to her to be proactive and ensure the security of our freedom and way of Life is made possible by the destruction of the Federation, the Federation not its people.

Sir, with respect, I find it a little ironic for you to be calling the Federation thieves, and having attempted to "force the Caldari into subjugation" (though I won't argue the specifics about that again, considering I already did so in the other thread to little end), when you yourself are an Achur.

When Sukuuvestaa came to our homeworld, they showed far more disrespect for our culture and way of life then ever displayed by the Federation to the Caldari on theirs. They wasted no time in deposing our imperial leadership and designating us "corporate subjects", demolishing our priceless major trade and cultural cities to make way for their own hyper-efficient designs, and declaring our home system as their new corporate capital. We were never even aware of the Federations existance until after it long would have mattered, with Saisio near the core of their space.

We "accepted" them, and became a "client state", so much as a bride in an arranged marriage might accept her husband - Because she has no choice but to do so. The Caldari have done much for us since those unpleasant early days, but I would suggest you hesitate in painting them with such a kindly brush. Much of the States arguement against the early Gallenteans, though still valid, is rife with hypocrisy, and this should not be forgotten.

As much as I can say I mislike the greater proportion of Ethnic Gallenteans I have had the misfortune to meet.....I certainly bear no ill will against the Intaki, a representative of whom has been a good friend to me and a member of the Classiarii.

God willing of all the unenlightened peoples of New Eden the Intaki suffer no more injustices.

I can't believe that you people are wasting your time to respond to a xenophobe, advocate of genocide and all around poor troll the likes of Kim. She's a bleating little bag of pseudo-intellectual babble who merely repeats the same drivel ad infinitum.

Seriously, don't waste your time feeding this troll.

Pieter,

Forgive me if I appear to be downplaying or dismissing the Caldari's own struggles with the Federation during the early days of seperatism - If I do, it is only because those with far more investment in the topic have already gone over them in great detail, yourself included. When I spoke about the State showing "far more disrespect" to the us then the Gallente showed to the Caldari, I admit I was mostly talking about first contact and the years following; Despite the "cultural deliverance society" and the proto-Federation being rather aggressive in it's early dealings with the native nation-states on Caldari Prime, it never went as far as literally tearing down some of their most important cultural sites to build factories and skyscrapers, and informing their people they were now Gallenteans.

But you are right to point out that that this still does not compare to the absolutely horrific act of orbitally bombarding a planets civilian population. It was an act of senseless barbarity of which there likely no equal in the history of the clusters north.

However, as I commented to you yesterday, I'm sort of uncertain if I'd agree with you if things are certainly changing for the better. The important difference between the two circumstances is that in many senses, the Federation have admitted they were in error in how they handled the Caldari rebellion, and even mourned the events - Hells, they practically tore the government that did it to pieces not years after it happened. And they learned from their mistakes to an extent, as well, which can be seen in how they handled the Jin-Mei's integration into their society.

SuVee, on the other hand, has never expressed any such sentiment. While it does permit the existance of the provisional government, it's policy has always been to more or less ignore it, and native Achur culture, and hope both are just eventually forgotten. And, as you and mister Akachi have illustrated, they are dangerously close to achieving just that end, because they use many means to enforce that forgetfulness, even today.

They've also never given back the cities they occupied on the homeworld, because after all, the Achur living there today are corporate citizens, and it would make no sense to return them. Reminds you of something, doesn't it?

Mister Akachi,

I regret if I have given you the impression that I hate the State or the Caldari, because I most certainly do not. If I harbour any seperatist tendancies in me whatsoever, they are of the faintest possible flavour - Unless the status quo changed dramatically, I do not think such an end would be desireable, not to mention even possible.

As I mentioned already, the State, for all it's faults, has done a great deal for our people. It has brought us a greater quality of life then we could ever have dreamed of under the old empire. It has, at least recently, respected our cultural customs. It has given us a voice (if a quiet one) in the galactic community. Finally, and probably most importantly, it has defended us from the rich variety of pirates, looters and slavers that would likely love to have their way with a single-planet state with a mostly primitive agricultural economy, and even sent it's fleets against our enemies on multiple occasions, most recently during the fiasco with the Rod of the Creator.

This, however, does not erase it's past misdeeds, nor the fact that it openly considers our culture to be inferior to it's own, and forces our people to conform to it absolutely in order to have any place in it's wider society. In a sense it is as you say - A choice to either remain on the homeworld (well, or I suppose immigrate out of the state, but that's not always possible) or to join a megacorporation (which requires you to adopt the Caldari identity completely) is still a choice, it is just a very loaded and rather unfair one, for a society that forced us to become a part of it in all but name.

If the State is ever to claim full moral authority over the Federation (if it has any interest in doing so), this is something that, at some point, it must address. It makes me a little uncomfortable how quickly you are willing to dismiss that, and instead cast it as a complete victim - a "broken waif" as you put it - washing away it's own rather typically imperialist actions against our people in the process.

I won't comment on your remarks about the Gallente, as it is obvious we have very fundementally different perceptions of the Federation and it's people.

This brings to mind something a freelancer told me. I do not remember the exact words, but what he told me was along the lines of working for those who holds the purse-strings being the same as playing a rigged game.