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Solo and small gang PvP fits using techie setups.
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Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-10-26 05:08:02 UTC
People do go on about how much DPS or EHP a ship has, but can there be more to it than plain numbers?

I want to make some frigate-dessie-cruiser fits that work on the principle of exchanging one or two guns for energy killing, and getting ewar module use out of the mids. Most fits I see for solo or small gang PvP emphasize the tank or gank methods, and I want to know if losing guns for specialist weapons like nos or neut, and ewar can have as great an effect.

I know amarr ships are really poor in the mids department, and most frigs of all races lack any utility slots above the minimums for turrets, but let's say I was building a Kestrel with 3 rockets and one neut, with a scram and MWD. Could this setup be potentially as deadly as simply packing 4 rockets? What are the issues with more diverse or DPS-lite designs that prevent them from being used so often, particularly on frig -> cruiser size hulls, that they aren't that common?

Also a bit interested as why the auto-targeting module is a high slot which would take guns away from you instead of a mid slot. Is it really good or really worthless?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-10-26 10:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Auto targetign is worhtless.. On the rest of your post I could nto devise a clear question to be answered.

Usually neuts are NOT a frigate role. When you want to neutralzie somethign you use Cruiser and above systems.

A frigate neut will do nothign to a battleship recharge for example, but a battleship neut will get a frigate dry in 1 go.

And at end everythign depends the scenario. If you drop guns to bring neuts to kill a sleipnir you gonna suffer a LOT. If you do the same to kill an astarte, things will be completely different.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-10-26 17:38:19 UTC
Interesting points. Thank you. I guess another follow up question would be concernng ewar frigs. Should they stack all the mid with ewar modules to maximize the benefits of their hulls, or would you want an afterburner or micro drive to keep speed up.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#4 - 2014-10-26 17:56:13 UTC
Generally the loss of dps is not worth having an unbonused neut / nos. the only exception to this rule, would be on BS class ships- where it has been known to drop a gun for a heavy neut. So this begs the question, why is it ok on a battleship, but foolish on a frig or cruiser?

Simple answer is utility. A heavy neut offers much more utility than a medium or small- bonused or unbonused, heavy neuts are op.

The only frigs / cruisers i could see using neut setups are primarily drone boats, tristan, vexor, ishtar i suppose.. Otherwise its just not worth it unless you are dealing with a bonused hull. Ie. Ashimmu, cruor, sentinel, curse, pilgrim, cruicifier? Or other ewar frigs.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#5 - 2014-10-26 23:43:02 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Generally the loss of dps is not worth having an unbonused neut / nos. the only exception to this rule, would be on BS class ships- where it has been known to drop a gun for a heavy neut. So this begs the question, why is it ok on a battleship, but foolish on a frig or cruiser?

Simple answer is utility. A heavy neut offers much more utility than a medium or small- bonused or unbonused, heavy neuts are op.

The only frigs / cruisers i could see using neut setups are primarily drone boats, tristan, vexor, ishtar i suppose.. Otherwise its just not worth it unless you are dealing with a bonused hull. Ie. Ashimmu, cruor, sentinel, curse, pilgrim, cruicifier? Or other ewar frigs.


Ha!

All that giref from CCP because they didn't like that everyone was using the 'Blood Raider' nosfertu module on most pvp fits and the neut was not used.

Now we have an almost useful small nosferatu and very useful Blood Raider ships and everyone else needs neuts to make them feel better about themselves.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Khorvek
Colear Mining Retrieval and Distributing
#6 - 2014-10-28 04:29:19 UTC
It'd be cool if auto-targeter was useful, but between no or just one utility high on most ships and the mass drone fests that fights usually are, it might just get you killed easier. Its a weird mod.

People talk about how eve is better than WoW. I still get one shotted undocking in a frigate if there's a WT thrasher outside. It looks eerily similar to getting one shotted in WoW battlegrounds by a x9 level player when you're x1-4 levels.
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-10-28 13:13:18 UTC
Herateis wrote:
Interesting points. Thank you. I guess another follow up question would be concernng ewar frigs. Should they stack all the mid with ewar modules to maximize the benefits of their hulls, or would you want an afterburner or micro drive to keep speed up.


Definitely use a prop mod. You will get tackled and killed right away because you won't be able to move around. Not to mention if you have to burn in range or back to gate you won't be able to with no prop mod.
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-10-28 23:40:38 UTC
What about solo PvP where you change out prop mod for web, and then use some ewar to mess with their locking or guns when they get close to try to kill you and you can web them without needing a prop mod to catch up to them? I was looking at tracking disruptors and if they want to get to brawl range and then they get webbed and disrupted with optimal script, I could keep them at the distance I want and make their guns completely useless maybe? Also, does afterburner counter web or just warp disruptor which would counter MWD?
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-10-31 00:48:09 UTC
Herateis wrote:
What about solo PvP where you change out prop mod for web, and then use some ewar to mess with their locking or guns when they get close to try to kill you and you can web them without needing a prop mod to catch up to them? I was looking at tracking disruptors and if they want to get to brawl range and then they get webbed and disrupted with optimal script, I could keep them at the distance I want and make their guns completely useless maybe? Also, does afterburner counter web or just warp disruptor which would counter MWD?


You wouldn't drop a prop mod in pvp. Only gimmicky setups i have seen with no prop mods and they fail in most situations. The situation with scram, web, and sensor damp to force them close may work in a 1 v 1 against a low ehp ship that falls for bait who is solo. The moment they have more people though you are not getting away or will be kited by everyone else as you slowboat away. Web cuts your speed by a certain percent, warp disruptor prevents warp but does not counter prop mods, and warp scrambler prevents warp and cuts enemies micro warp drive but does not cut their speed if they use an afterburner.

It's nice to use ewar but no need to gimp your ability to move. For example you jump into a gate camp, you can either try to warp away or burn back to gate. You need fast align or cloaky warping ship to avoid fast tackle to warp away. If you have no prop mod this is your only option since you can not burn back to gate. With a prop mod you can burn back to gate if needed if you can survive their dps for a few seconds. They need a scram and a web on you to slow you to crawl if you have mwd or web and disruptor to slow and prevent warp if you have afterburner. If you are able to jump through they will have aggression timer for attacking you and can't follow. If you shot back you will be stuck on gate also btw.

Second quick example, two ships have a warp disruptor point on you. With no prop mod you are not gettig out of range so they dictate the fight and if you are in a fleet you will constantly be left behind.