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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

First post
Author
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2014-10-26 19:58:56 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.

What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.

Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.


So go out and protect them then if it bothers you, Uedama is not a rookie system.


There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.


There are plenty of ways to protect against that, think about it.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#322 - 2014-10-26 20:01:43 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
There are plenty of ways to protect against that, think about it.
:effort:

It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Nevil Oscillator
#323 - 2014-10-26 21:10:24 UTC
HIgh Sec Prison

You people don't understand, I'm not locked up in here with you, you are locked up in here with me
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#324 - 2014-10-26 21:17:43 UTC
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Nevil Oscillator
#325 - 2014-10-26 22:24:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
:effort:

It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.


CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#326 - 2014-10-26 22:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
:effort:

It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.


CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord


Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million isk thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty.
Nevil Oscillator
#327 - 2014-10-26 22:45:49 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million isk thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty.



Also if you try to police high sec then Concord starts working for the other side.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#328 - 2014-10-26 23:01:16 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million isk thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty.



Also if you try to police high sec then Concord starts working for the other side.


The majority of the ganking community runs at neg ten, so that's highly unlikely. If by some chance the ganker has gone to the trouble of keeping up his sec status, he's earned it, because it either takes about twenty hours of ratting or about 500-700 mil.

And if they are doing that, then they sure as **** are not shooting pods either, because that flushes your sec status away really damn quickly.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Nevil Oscillator
#329 - 2014-10-26 23:27:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


The majority of the ganking community runs at neg ten, so that's highly unlikely. .


Dunno, I just heard the screams and tears down the intercom, which secretly slightly amused me. Don't get me wrong when I say the game should include a more workable provision for bounty hunters, it's only a view of what might make the game better. Unfortunately we are stuck with wall of Concord until someone has a better idea. That better idea isn't going to be easy to think of because I'm fairly sure a lot of people have already tried.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#330 - 2014-10-27 04:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
:effort:

It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.


CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord
To a certain extent yes, Concord punishes crime, it doesn't prevent it though, and it never should.

Some people would like to see Concord's role expanded to protection and prevention too, instagibbing anybody who has the temerity to enter highsec while -5 or worse essentially outlawing criminals to lowsec, providing protection details etc. As far as I'm concerned these things should be provided by players working together, not an omnipotent NPC that you can't escape. Those people are the ones that the :effort: comment is aimed at.

Furthermore some also want low sec status to result in highsec docking rights removal, inability to access highsec POS's while under GCC or with low sec status, the list goes on and on.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Silent Stories
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#331 - 2014-10-27 05:34:53 UTC
Not sure if this was mentioned, but. I'm fairly new and i'm sure some of you will say super new, ive been playing for a couple of months and enjoying the game as much as i can get on and play.

I find the hardest thing to do in this game is making "new" friends. When i first started i was found by a mining group that took me in. they've basically disbanded now.

I'm still in the corp, but what i find the most obnoxious is that they tell you don't talk in local chat at all, or it will start a war. So i never did it, i didn't wanna be the problem.

How was i supposed to find and meet new people tho? I finally made a post on here about finding a Corp tonight so hopefully that helps. i think that's a big reason why new players have trouble tho. gets lonely out there all alone sometimes.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#332 - 2014-10-27 06:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Silent Stories wrote:
Not sure if this was mentioned, but. I'm fairly new and i'm sure some of you will say super new, ive been playing for a couple of months and enjoying the game as much as i can get on and play.
Welcome to Eve Big smile

Quote:
I find the hardest thing to do in this game is making "new" friends. When i first started i was found by a mining group that took me in. they've basically disbanded now.

I'm still in the corp, but what i find the most obnoxious is that they tell you don't talk in local chat at all, or it will start a war. So i never did it, i didn't wanna be the problem.
Finding new friends can be tough, especially with the terrible advice you were given about chatting with others. Unless you talk crap in local you're unlikely to start a war, Eve is a social game and telling you not to talk in local goes against that. My advice to you is to find a corp that isn't paranoid. You may find Nightcrawler's guide to finding the right corp helpful in this respect.

Quote:
How was i supposed to find and meet new people tho? I finally made a post on here about finding a Corp tonight so hopefully that helps.
Good stuff and good luck, if you get an offer to join a corp that requires any sort of security deposit, or they offer to move all your stuff, it's almost definitely a scam, avoid those offers like the plague.

Quote:
i think that's a big reason why new players have trouble tho. gets lonely out there all alone sometimes.
Indeed it does.

If you have any questions about anything at all I'd recommend posting them over in New Citizens Q&A for now, the older players that post there tend to be knowledgeable, helpful and normally quite friendly. Here in GD there be trolls, over in NCQA trolls get stomped on very rapidly.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Nevil Oscillator
#333 - 2014-10-27 11:53:45 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
:effort:

It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.


CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord
To a certain extent yes, Concord punishes crime, it doesn't prevent it though, and it never should.



Concord doesn't punish crime, it reacts consistently and invariably with a specific response to one type of action.

This is overcome by gathering the correct resources to get past it, ie; Lots of players , lots of cheap ships

A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#334 - 2014-10-27 12:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
Veers Belvar wrote:
There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.


dont autopilot

warp to a 0km undock spot and then dock immediatley.

avoid uedama if u know there is a 40 man fleet of gankers who will give 0 fucks about losing thier ship to get urs

put people in jail? we are playing a game arent we?

if i saw that guy undock every 15 mins to snipe a pod of a shuttle i would wait till he goes criminal and get in on the km....

honestly i believe the players can police the systems. locate your gankers, griefers, miscreants and kill them. if they have friends then bring friends.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#335 - 2014-10-27 12:13:41 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add.


Wrong (as usual). Most of us who pve in high sec don't whine about gankers on the forums or obsess about them like you do. We get on with the business of playing. Most PVE players are way more like me than like you, we know gankers have the same right to play the way they want to as we do and we take pride in avoiding them rather then crying like children.


Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc..... Virtually none of them appreciate the PvP folks. Look at the all the forum posts requesting nerfs.

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.


And yet the VAST majority of EVE players never post on these forums. So how can you tell what others want? lol at "look at all the post asking for nerfs" (that's called confirmation bias btw, and you're doing it). We can prove most EVE characters don't post on the forums, but you can't prove what you believe. Not that you're the type that requires evidence to form an opinion, just saying.

The point here is that you are in no way representative of the real PVE community in this game, which (despite the vocal minority who can't handle the loss of imaginary space ships) is rather tough compared to pve types in other games.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#336 - 2014-10-27 12:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Concord doesn't punish crime, it reacts consistently and invariably with a specific response to one type of action.
You're kind of right, the Crimewatch system controls the flagging of players, stealing loot and flipping cans are consider to be "petty" offences, hence you only get flagged; shooting someone in the face outside of a limited set of conditions is considered a "serious" crime and incurs a GCC flag, hence Concord roll up and BBQ you everytime you undock in anything other than a pod for the duration of that flag.

Concord responding to petty crime would fall under crime prevention, which is not their designed role.

Quote:
This is overcome by gathering the correct resources to get past it, ie; Lots of players , lots of cheap ships
Yep, but that doesn't change the fact that Concord still punish the offenders.

Quote:
A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.
I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#337 - 2014-10-27 12:21:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc.....
I've managed to happily PvE away for the last 5 years with absolutley zero wardecs, ganks, awoxing etc. The only problems I've had have been down to my own stupidity and greed.


Same. other than buying a 100 million isk hauler because i was in too much of a hurry to count the zeros and had my market window misconfigured (and of course their was the "autopiliting JF to jita while both drunk and war decced incident Cool ) I've had no problems (and since most people don't post on forums, we can assume this is the same for many, maybe most pve players). The people (like Veers and the OP) who whine about these things are simply the folks who can't take responsibility for their own actions. They need things to be someone Else's fault to in order to protect their egos.

As in real life in this case, so in EVE: 90+% of an individuals 'problems' in any given situation (at least in the "First World") stems from their internal faults, bad thinking and/or bad choices. people stop thinking stupid thoughts, people stop having stupid problems, but of course, that's a lot harder than just saying "those people over their are bad and the cause of all evil".
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#338 - 2014-10-27 12:35:13 UTC
I think a players driven Militia is a great idea!

That way they can have a sniff at PvP without giving up mining.

What if Miners would unite? Bigger and smaller corp's get organised and raise a militia. A whole solarsystem under guard by the same organisation that mines it sounds completely in line with the games design.

After all... if CODE can do it then why cant miners do the same?

A Miners Coöp with its own Militia (Militia can be from a sort of mandatory guard tour or from hired hands).

i read somewhere that you can make your claim public when you get unlawfully ganked right?

CCP should lengthen that state and make a ganker vulnerable for a longer period.... after all the miners are vulnerable all the time so...

Just a thought... although its a bit offtopic... unless OP was in a Miners Coöp Smile

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!

Black Pedro
Mine.
#339 - 2014-10-27 12:44:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.


The maximum punishment a ganker can administer to a target is the destruction of their ship and pod. Why should a ganker be forced to risk more than other players when undocking?

Eve is not an experiment in creating a harmonious space society. If it was CCP could cancel the clone contracts of gankers or put them on space trial and put them in space prison forever for continued ganking. Eve is a PvP game where there is suppose to be combat and ganking everywhere including highsec. You can't seem to grasp the idea that ganking is baked into the design. The fact that autopiloting untanked ships are being destroyed or that overloaded, unescorted freighters are being taken down by groups of dozens of players, is suppose to happen. New Eden is a dangerous place.

Players already have the tools to prevent almost all of these attacks. And if they do almost everything right but are very unlucky, well they are suppose to be able to absorb the loss of a ship by not flying what they cannot afford to lose, and then learn from that loss. Why do you even want to "protect" these other "players", when they won't even bother to take the time to protect themselves?

Haleuth
Peoples Liberation Army
Goonswarm Federation
#340 - 2014-10-27 13:44:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me.
Pointing out the flaws and ignorance evident in pretty much everything you post is not obsessive, it's a public service to those who may mistakenly think you know what you're talking about.

As for the rest I'm a happy and unrepentant PvE player, I mine, I mission I trade, I make stuff. However I accept that others are free to shoot at me if they wish to, and take steps to lower the chances of that happening. You on the other hand want CCP to take those steps for you.


Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.

What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.

Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.


You state this "Nor do I really care about AFK freighters getting ganked" on http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/kills-of-week_26.html#comment-form

If it wasn't for the new order, what exactly would be your reason to play since the only thing you seem to do with your time is post on forums?

I suppose your next project will be to stop people shooting each other in Battlefield 4 LOL