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Risk/Reward about null mining is broken after Crius patch
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Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-10-25 13:22:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Maekchu wrote:


Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P


Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon.


But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded!

That thread is going to be figuratively cancer.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Dave stark
#22 - 2014-10-25 13:23:36 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Maekchu wrote:


Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P


Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon.


But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded!

That thread is going to be figuratively cancer.


it'll probably turn from figurative to literal, by the end.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-10-25 14:10:22 UTC
Finde learth wrote:
3 months have past.
I guess there are no null miners in CCP and CSM.


There are plenty of miners in Null... well, at least in the null "Slavelands" where renters cheerfully slave away for their feudal masters -- but when you meet the Devil at the Crossroads, well... c'est la vie, cherie.

Of course, anyone with half a brain knew that such massive over-mining of ABC's would lead to a high-end minerals crash.

And now, well, the situation only gets worse as prices continue to drop and the various "farmers" undercut each other at market desperately trying to "make the rent" each month on commodities that just keep going lower in value.

Fun times. Twisted


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Ormand Yvorme
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-10-25 15:13:23 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices.
I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun.

So. A bit like a covert ops ship that could fit really strong bombs and battleship sized weapons? Or cruisers that could be cloaks and do good DPS? Or like, ventures (battleventureftw) but with a covops cloak? Or maybe a cloaky faction that have high DPS drones and turrets.
I wonder, maybe CCP should implement them.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#25 - 2014-10-25 15:31:56 UTC
Finde learth wrote:
3 months have past.
I guess there are no null miners in CCP and CSM.


If you stopped paying rent, you could keep more of those rewards.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-10-25 17:50:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Maekchu wrote:


Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P


Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon.


But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded!

That thread is going to be figuratively cancer.


it'll probably turn from figurative to literal, by the end.


It's going to be a blast even if it does give use all mind cancer.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-10-25 18:24:07 UTC
Ormand Yvorme wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices.
I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun.

So. A bit like a covert ops ship that could fit really strong bombs and battleship sized weapons? Or cruisers that could be cloaks and do good DPS? Or like, ventures (battleventureftw) but with a covops cloak? Or maybe a cloaky faction that have high DPS drones and turrets.
I wonder, maybe CCP should implement them.

I think you missed the most important part.

Trust me, I have done my share of trying to implement risk to parts of EVE, that are essentially risk free. But because of local, people can just dock up as soon as you they are not alone in local. So yeah, I know the cloaky variants in game at the moment.

What I was asking for, is a tool for aggressors that can be used, to get a tackle on someone and have a window of opportunity, so it forces a response from the defender. I don't mind a blop showing up, if I tackle anyone, cause that caused a reaction. What I do mind, is everyone and their mother, to just dock up as soon as they are not alone in local.

All the odds are in favor of the defender at the moment. It should be, that if you are skilled enough, you can stack the odds in your favor, even as an aggressor. For example, you will only get the kill on a lowsec or nullsec miner, if they are completely ********, or have no idea what they are doing i.e. a newbie lost in space.

Yeah, I'm asking for a tool to get carebear killmails. But it sure would be a nice change for a solo pilots, except always flying 1vsMany. If there is no risk in some parts of EVE, then give us the tools CCP. Solo pilots will gladly provide this service to you! :D
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#28 - 2014-10-25 21:30:49 UTC
I like the new system.
The risk is that you can waste time mining rocks that nobody will pay you for. It might force a true economy and not an ISK printing war.

Previous Null had little industry and you trucked all minerals from Null ore to HS and made stuff on demand or sold it as raw. For the new Null to work, you need to make on site and hope to have a few high end minerals left over to take to HS to sell because both Morphite and Megacyte are still exclusive to Null. While I can mine HS anoms and get everything I need to manufacture, I can't get Morphite and I can't get Megacyte in any volume. I can get Zydrine for small Industry operation but in mass production, Zydrine needs to be imported as well. I could try and gun mine Megacyte from Amarr mission loot but with all the changes combined, that is less and less likely.

Null in its current climate has room for surplus Megacyte, Morphite, Zydrine and Moon goo as profit but it needs to be surplus, not all in to the JF, off to Jita for sale. This system needs to be handled through Null agreements on all ends. If you want to be an over lord alliance, you need to consider industrial contribution from prefecture space as being just as valid as raw ISK. 'Rental space' that provides capital parts at a discount will need to be given rental subsidy.

Yes, the Null that is evolving is complex and will require more than a wallet transaction but wasn't that EVE complexity what we bragged about not too long ago?
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-10-25 22:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Finde learth wrote:
Ama Scelesta wrote:
I guess the responsibility of informing them on how things are broken falls on to you then. Don't be shy, write it all down here in a calm and constructive manner.

You can do it.

I believe in you.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnERv99119DgdFBHOGdhUjgtelVJTFBQT3paaHA2Ync&hl=en_US#gid=0

Check Arkonor Bistot Crokite isk/hr and compare them to other high sec ores.

The isk/hr about Mercoxit is wrong. Because 5400 m3 / cycle is impossible for Mercoxit.

This is a red herring.. very few people sell ABC ores in high sec because it's much more economical and convenient to sell the refined minerals.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Finde learth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-10-26 00:55:43 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Finde learth wrote:
Ama Scelesta wrote:
I guess the responsibility of informing them on how things are broken falls on to you then. Don't be shy, write it all down here in a calm and constructive manner.

You can do it.

I believe in you.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnERv99119DgdFBHOGdhUjgtelVJTFBQT3paaHA2Ync&hl=en_US#gid=0

Check Arkonor Bistot Crokite isk/hr and compare them to other high sec ores.

The isk/hr about Mercoxit is wrong. Because 5400 m3 / cycle is impossible for Mercoxit.

This is a red herring.. very few people sell ABC ores in high sec because it's much more economical and convenient to sell the refined minerals.


That's why the sheet use minerals price to calculate.

Mining High-end ores in null becomes a joke since Crius patch.

If Low-end ores have more isk/hr than High-end ores,
Why should i go to null for mining?

Military 6/10 mission have 600k+ m3 ores and reset everyday. Mining in there is much safer than in null.
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#31 - 2014-10-26 05:57:28 UTC
Finde learth wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Finde learth wrote:
Ama Scelesta wrote:
I guess the responsibility of informing them on how things are broken falls on to you then. Don't be shy, write it all down here in a calm and constructive manner.

You can do it.

I believe in you.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnERv99119DgdFBHOGdhUjgtelVJTFBQT3paaHA2Ync&hl=en_US#gid=0

Check Arkonor Bistot Crokite isk/hr and compare them to other high sec ores.

The isk/hr about Mercoxit is wrong. Because 5400 m3 / cycle is impossible for Mercoxit.

This is a red herring.. very few people sell ABC ores in high sec because it's much more economical and convenient to sell the refined minerals.


That's why the sheet use minerals price to calculate.

Mining High-end ores in null becomes a joke since Crius patch.

If Low-end ores have more isk/hr than High-end ores,
Why should i go to null for mining?

Military 6/10 mission have 600k+ m3 ores and reset everyday. Mining in there is much safer than in null.


Probably because you don't get some random pilot playing table tennis with your barge, you have the security of nullbearspace, and you can shoot people in the face with impunity.

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-10-26 06:43:44 UTC
Elinarien wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if you're going to mine more in null sec, and flood the market with minerals...

what the **** did you think would happen to the price of high end minerals?


Whilst at the same time those same null coalitions push down hard on hi-sec miners with Code etc that reduces supply and results in overall higher prices.


CODE wish they had an effect of such magnitude.

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