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Dev Blog: Trials and Tribulations

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stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-10-24 19:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: stg slate
The ONLY way these changes make any sense as a whole is if you are planning on having unlimited length trials, aka Free -To-Play.

On a side note, I agree with the restrictions you guys have on these new upcoming F2P accounts:

No T2 weapons
No T2/T3 Ships(except AFs)
No Capitals
No High-end trade skills


I do think you should have done something to restrict PI and T2 Manufacturing alts a bit more.

Also, if you were not going to have F2P accounts why in the world would you ever restrict the unlimited length queue to paying customers only? You would be going far out of your way just to annoy potential customers!
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#22 - 2014-10-24 19:52:14 UTC
Two things:

1- Is it a bannable offense to use throaway alts to infiltrate alliances to gank people by awoxing them? Then delete the alt once he's been "burned".

2- I'm very worried about the cloaking skill for trials. Afk-cloaking is stupid in itself, but its part of the game, and having lived in a wormhole we've learned to just not care... But I can't even dare to imaginethe number of people and the number of accounts who would be created just to afk-cloak... It will go out of hands really fast.

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Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-10-24 20:02:29 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Two things:

1- Is it a bannable offense to use throaway alts to infiltrate alliances to gank people by awoxing them? Then delete the alt once he's been "burned".

2- I'm very worried about the cloaking skill for trials. Afk-cloaking is stupid in itself, but its part of the game, and having lived in a wormhole we've learned to just not care... But I can't even dare to imaginethe number of people and the number of accounts who would be created just to afk-cloak... It will go out of hands really fast.



Your talking about noob toons with little skills.

Fix - don't invite noobs into the alliance.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-10-24 20:13:01 UTC
Starting them out with some more skills than current would do a lot more for a noob toon IMO.

Fill in some more basic skills,, gunnery (no missiles), scanning, frigate, so they can actually try a few things out instead of watching an sp counter tick by.

Not impressed with any of it otherwise.
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#25 - 2014-10-24 20:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
Come to think of it, why not allow trials for unlimited duration? Or at least up the time limit on trials to 1 month? It typically takes people a long time to both learn EVE and an even longer time to decide whether they like EVE--many people have to give EVE multiple attempts before they are hooked (I did fwiw). I think the devs need to ask a serious question about EVE as an 11 year old game that is fantastic and constantly improving, but badly needs new players: Would it be better for the long-term health of the game--financially and in terms of the player base--if trial players had more time to actually try out a variety of features?

I also think new players should start with more skills, so as to be able to try more and not have to train 10 skills just to fit a ship for a simple mission.
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-10-24 20:40:17 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Come to think of it, why not allow trials for unlimited duration? Or at least up the time limit on trials to 1 month? It typically takes people a long time to both learn EVE and an even longer time to decide whether they like EVE--many people have to give EVE multiple attempts before they are hooked (I did fwiw). I think the devs need to ask a serious question about EVE as an 11 year old game that is fantastic and constantly improving, but badly needs new players: Would it be better for the long-term health of the game--financially and in terms of the player base--if trial players had more time to actually try out a variety of features?

I also think new players should start with more skills, so as to be able to try more and not have to train 10 skills just to fit a ship for a simple mission.


With these changes in place I can think of no reason not to allow for trials of unlimited duration.

But they won't do it with Pheobe; they will want an entire release-worth of logs to determine if all you naughty players will abuse the systems. That is why they mentioned logging all trial activity.

Next major release post-Pheobe will have the F2P unlimited length trials, provided nothing is discovered with the logging!
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#27 - 2014-10-24 21:07:39 UTC
stg slate wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Come to think of it, why not allow trials for unlimited duration? Or at least up the time limit on trials to 1 month? It typically takes people a long time to both learn EVE and an even longer time to decide whether they like EVE--many people have to give EVE multiple attempts before they are hooked (I did fwiw). I think the devs need to ask a serious question about EVE as an 11 year old game that is fantastic and constantly improving, but badly needs new players: Would it be better for the long-term health of the game--financially and in terms of the player base--if trial players had more time to actually try out a variety of features?

I also think new players should start with more skills, so as to be able to try more and not have to train 10 skills just to fit a ship for a simple mission.


With these changes in place I can think of no reason not to allow for trials of unlimited duration.

But they won't do it with Pheobe; they will want an entire release-worth of logs to determine if all you naughty players will abuse the systems. That is why they mentioned logging all trial activity.

Next major release post-Pheobe will have the F2P unlimited length trials, provided nothing is discovered with the logging!


In some ways I actually hope you are right. EVE needs new players, there's no doubt about that. And players abuse everything--it's just a question of whether it is game-breaking, in which case it can be nerfed/changed/bannable, or whether it is just the regular old abuse allowed in EVE.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2014-10-24 21:22:36 UTC
Does this mean people can make throwaway alts in order to use the Industry Team system?
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-10-24 21:24:36 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
In some ways I actually hope you are right.


What do you mean "hope I'm right"?

I said it, so it is true. We will be ankle-deep in adorable F2P newbies flying around in their Reapers and Iblises before the new year!
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-10-24 21:29:45 UTC
stg slate wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
In some ways I actually hope you are right.


What do you mean "hope I'm right"?

I said it, so it is true. We will be ankle-deep in adorable F2P newbies flying around in their Reapers and Iblises before the new year!


[Reaper, Reaper]

Gyrostabilizer II
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1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-10-24 21:33:28 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
stg slate wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
In some ways I actually hope you are right.


What do you mean "hope I'm right"?

I said it, so it is true. We will be ankle-deep in adorable F2P newbies flying around in their Reapers and Iblises before the new year!


[Reaper, Reaper]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S



Trials can no longer train Small Autocannon Specilization! If you are a marketing mogul then stock up on Meta4 weapons! They will be more in demand soon!
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-10-24 21:52:40 UTC
stg slate wrote:

Trials can no longer train Small Autocannon Specilization! If you are a marketing mogul then stock up on Meta4 weapons! They will be more in demand soon!


Yea, rookie ships can't do plexes either.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#33 - 2014-10-25 00:16:43 UTC
stg slate wrote:
With these changes in place I can think of no reason not to allow for trials of unlimited duration.



  • Disruption of the character bazaar: why buy a character when you can just train one for free?
  • Disruption of multi-character training (see above)
  • Much lower penalty for grief play (i.e.: your reputation won't follow you since you'll just have a legion of alts ready to burn)
  • Drastic increase in PLEX prices as people are able to raise decent incomes on "endless trial" characters to feed their main
  • Less requirement to pay subscriptions, the restrictions do not prevent flying officer-fit pirate hulls, for example, so there is little restriction from endless swarms of mission runners simply dropping subscriptions and going free-to-play. I imagine nullsec blocs would develop T1-fit doctrine fleets to accommodate their endless trial members whose only technical involvement in the game is showing up and pressing F1 (because N+1 is always better)


CCP could add some "concierge" features (cf: 'Greed is Good' issue of Fearless) to encourage people to subscribe, even for a month or two at a time. Some initial thoughts:

  • Limits on wallet capacity (where would the excess go? free ISK for CONCORD? sell orders get cancelled?)
  • Limits on hangar capacity or number of hangars
  • Restrictions on LP stores (or simply have agents/incursions not award LP to unlicensed pilots)
  • Restrictions on the ISK value of items on the market (i.e.: total in escrow)


Endless trials would be a more attractive alternative to the "hardcore sudden death with faster skill training" option proposed by one of the devs at EVE Vegas.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#34 - 2014-10-25 00:50:08 UTC
How are we suppose to be able to test these features using Sisi alts if we cannot make true trial accounts on Sisi.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#35 - 2014-10-25 04:15:45 UTC
Are trials restricted from CREATING corporations? If not, are they restricted from declaring war?

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Nimrodion
Xanthium Prime
#36 - 2014-10-25 11:50:09 UTC
Nice changes overall, but several things need to be considered before the implementation:


- Is there some rule in place to prevent people from running trial accounts on industrial scale? This is EVE after all, if it can be done - someone will do it.

- As far as I know, all planets contain shared PI resources, and the more people mine the same pockets of resources the less each of them gets. So, what's to stop someone from creating a farm of trial accounts and ruining their competitors planets for prolonged periods of time?

Alstevar Eastern
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-10-25 12:42:31 UTC
A lot of good things for trials but i have bad feeling for one ;

Quote:
Trial accounts are no longer limited in the ways they can send and receive ISK.

= More spamming trial bots and players in channels for isks.

Your effective personal standings need to be higher to see the player's signature.

CCP Cognac
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2014-10-25 14:08:58 UTC
Greygal wrote:
Are trials restricted from CREATING corporations? If not, are they restricted from declaring war?



no and no
CCP Cognac
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2014-10-25 14:12:49 UTC
Alstevar Eastern wrote:
A lot of good things for trials but i have bad feeling for one ;

Quote:
Trial accounts are no longer limited in the ways they can send and receive ISK.

= More spamming trial bots and players in channels for isks.


this is one of the things that we will be following closely. But our main focus was , we don't want to restrict the many for the assholery of the few. The old trials had a lot of restrictions like that and our aim was to give players the freedom the enjoy eve as much as possible in the limited time that the trial is and instead handle the bad apples accordingly
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-10-25 15:30:24 UTC
more trial suicide gankers
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