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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Ingame Browser getting updated.

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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#81 - 2014-10-22 16:38:37 UTC
Dear CCP... the argument in favour of removing the IGB seems to be:

"why should we waste development time on our own browser when 3rd party solutions exist?"

There are 3rd party games as well. Should we play those instead of EVE? Then you wouldn't have to waste your development time on spaceships either. IF PLAYERS LIKE THE IGB, DEVS SHOULD NOT BE ACTIVELY MAKING PLANS TO REMOVE IT.

The crux of the issue as I see it is that you can interact with the IGB, and then interact with something else in the client without the IGB being covered up or disappearing. With an OGB on the other hand... as soon as I click on my overview, the client will come to the front and cover up my OGB. While OGBs have more functionality, they are missing what I consider to be the most vital functionality - integration with the EVE client.

Then there's the fact that CCP will be unable to troubleshoot compatibility issues with 3rd party software that they don't own, but expect players to use anyway. To give you an example: Overwolf doesn't work at the same time as MSI Afterburner. It just refuses to play ball.

Removing the IGB seems like a really bad idea, but then again we don't know what the alternative will look like. I look forward to a dev blog on the subject.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#82 - 2014-10-22 16:50:55 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Am I the only one here that just uses normal windowed mode? I don't mind having a title bar and a taskbar, in fact the latter is useful for switching between programs.

I do the same. 3 clients - 1 Monitor

I'm right behind you
Alundil
Rolled Out
#83 - 2014-10-22 16:54:13 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:


Is there an overlay that works on Mac OS X?


Nope. Just like there has never been a TS3 overlay for mac either. CCP will just point to "Overwolf and other overlays" that are PC only as proof all is cool and wash their hands of it while ignoring that once again mac users will loose functionality with the change. Then add what I'm sure will be a bit of PC master race d-baggery thrown at us on forums if we complain for good measure.

Well, tbh, you do have it coming....


















(couldn't resist)

I'm right behind you
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-10-22 17:00:13 UTC
Manssell wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So a final post, as this topic has been talked about in a few threads (one nice threadnaught) before:

  • The IGB is not being removed anytime soon
  • It's also not getting any love
  • When we do remove it there will be a nice long conversation at that time
  • Browsers are a very complicated thing, they receive a lot of updates and change very fast, they are also a GIANT security threat to your machine.
  • There are plenty of options for once we remove the IGB still getting a browser in your client, such as the linked Overwolf overlay. Since those things just use your browser, there is no delay for getting updates.
  • We could spend our time keeping the IGB, but when things such as Overwolf and other overlays exist, our time is better spent on the spaceship game.
  • We wont remove the IGB until CREST can take over the gameplay functionality.
  • For those concerns for "no second monitor" or "playing fullscreen" please see overlays.


This will all come up again when we actually go to remove the IGB, so until then, fly safe guys.



Sounds great.

Just a question?

Is there an overlay that works on Mac OS X?


Nope. Just like there has never been a TS3 overlay for mac either. CCP will just point to "Overwolf and other overlays" that are PC only as proof all is cool and wash their hands of it while ignoring that once again mac users will loose functionality with the change. Then add what I'm sure will be a bit of PC master race d-baggery thrown at us on forums if we complain for good measure.


It's not CCP's fault if nobody did the legwork of building an overlay system for MACs like it was done for PCs... It's not a matter of PC-master race but a matter of the userbase of your chosen operating system didn't do the work other userbase decided to do.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#85 - 2014-10-22 17:19:31 UTC
Overwolf is kinda terrible

Also I know I'm not the only one who has a potato computer that can't really run a browser and multiple clients without everything slowing down
Riebee Shelan
Viking Menace
#86 - 2014-10-22 17:36:04 UTC
I understand the desire to get away from the IGB, but the only overlay you have listed (Overwolf) does not support all features of EVE.

As stated on the Overwolf website:

Eve Online

Overwolf doesn't support this game when rendered in DirectX 11. Game can be set to DirectX 9 through the game launcher settings -> DirectX tab -> change to 'DirectX 9'.


And as previously stated not all users can support having a multitude of things running at once either. I personally have used one and two monitors for the game and understand both sides of this coin. The biggest problem with not having the IGB is the lack of awareness of what is happening in game when outside of the game environment (ie: another browser). I can support the removal of the IGB only if there is an alternative such as Overwolf that works with all features of EVE and on all supported systems such as windows, Mac, etc...

Just my two cents.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#87 - 2014-10-22 17:42:45 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Manssell wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:


Is there an overlay that works on Mac OS X?


Nope. Just like there has never been a TS3 overlay for mac either. CCP will just point to "Overwolf and other overlays" that are PC only as proof all is cool and wash their hands of it while ignoring that once again mac users will loose functionality with the change. Then add what I'm sure will be a bit of PC master race d-baggery thrown at us on forums if we complain for good measure.

Well, tbh, you do have it coming....


















(couldn't resist)



Thanks for the out loud laugh, I had a small browser window open and when I scrolled down on your comment it read as two thoughts and became "couldn't resist, I'm right behind you"
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#88 - 2014-10-22 17:47:52 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Manssell wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So a final post, as this topic has been talked about in a few threads (one nice threadnaught) before:

  • The IGB is not being removed anytime soon
  • It's also not getting any love
  • When we do remove it there will be a nice long conversation at that time
  • Browsers are a very complicated thing, they receive a lot of updates and change very fast, they are also a GIANT security threat to your machine.
  • There are plenty of options for once we remove the IGB still getting a browser in your client, such as the linked Overwolf overlay. Since those things just use your browser, there is no delay for getting updates.
  • We could spend our time keeping the IGB, but when things such as Overwolf and other overlays exist, our time is better spent on the spaceship game.
  • We wont remove the IGB until CREST can take over the gameplay functionality.
  • For those concerns for "no second monitor" or "playing fullscreen" please see overlays.


This will all come up again when we actually go to remove the IGB, so until then, fly safe guys.



Sounds great.

Just a question?

Is there an overlay that works on Mac OS X?


Nope. Just like there has never been a TS3 overlay for mac either. CCP will just point to "Overwolf and other overlays" that are PC only as proof all is cool and wash their hands of it while ignoring that once again mac users will loose functionality with the change. Then add what I'm sure will be a bit of PC master race d-baggery thrown at us on forums if we complain for good measure.


It's not CCP's fault if nobody did the legwork of building an overlay system for MACs like it was done for PCs... It's not a matter of PC-master race but a matter of the userbase of your chosen operating system didn't do the work other userbase decided to do.


No I get it, and I'm not blaming CCP either. I understand why they would want to stop development on the browser. I'm just a bit annoyed at the attitude CCP is showing that the problem is already solved/will soon will be (or even ever) for a large chunk of their player base who are on macs.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#89 - 2014-10-23 02:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
CCP FoxFour wrote:
The IGB is not getting updated, once CREST is up to par the IGB will be removed.




I hope CREST can handle many requests a second from a single source :D And when that fails I am more than happy to offload that to multiple IPs :D

Here's just one server's load that uses IGB data:
http://i.imgur.com/6ovj7KX.png (requests/sec)
http://i.imgur.com/8c7dWs0.png (connections)

Those graphs are just this week, the summer had 3x the numbers.

Each request/second would require an request/second match to CREST, same for # of connections that would have to be maintained.
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#90 - 2014-10-23 21:10:54 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You go to a website

You authenticate, and while doing so, approve its request to access your position information by crest.


.. okay, so how will it handle tracking multiple characters simultaneously (i.e the browser being logged in as multiple characters simultaneously)
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-10-24 00:22:06 UTC
Looking forward to the CREST update that will allow us to map wormholes and probably do even more than the IGB currently does.

I do imagine on some low end machines alt+tab is not something you want to do regularly and with this in mind could CCP consider implementing a very simple wormhole mapper in the client and leave the more detailed ones to the browsers much like the in game map and Dotlan.

This could reassure some fears of the IGB being removed when it is, along with adding a better New Player Experience to wormholes.
On that topic a tool tip / pop up / notification thing that mentions you REALLY NEED TO BOOKMARK YOUR ENTRY HOLE at least the first time you do it would be a great addition. I remember when I first started playing and wormholes were introduced I got stuck for quite a while trying to get out again. Pretty sure my exit was by death to sleepers. Perhaps even consider adding a few easy sites (in wormholes that connect to the starter systems?) for the new players who are automatically drawn to wormholes but don't have the skills beyond scanning and maybe hacking.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2014-10-24 03:17:45 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You go to a website

You authenticate, and while doing so, approve its request to access your position information by crest.


.. okay, so how will it handle tracking multiple characters simultaneously (i.e the browser being logged in as multiple characters simultaneously)

ou can do that with stateless? browsers
In my case I use chrome incognito to dual set my disposable gmail and my real one

Also not surprised at the IGB dying, I've coded a browser for my use, and its amazing how little it actually works on due to all the additional material beyond html/php people use now a days

Here is a fu bit, google.com search doesn't work in it as the button is blocked from activating and the call goes through jscript or something
Yahoo works though.
Daniel Jackson
Universal Exos
#93 - 2014-10-24 06:57:40 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Also i dont know (not saying it cant be done, i just dont know) if you can have responsive overley where you can ussue actions, like button press to let sey set destination to given system, etc...

Ccp - pls dont tell us we now have to write overley tools for every single app we use in igb. People will hate you for that.


crest has that ability btw so dont you worry

I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#94 - 2014-10-24 12:30:40 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You go to a website

You authenticate, and while doing so, approve its request to access your position information by crest.


.. okay, so how will it handle tracking multiple characters simultaneously (i.e the browser being logged in as multiple characters simultaneously)



As it's probably handled at the server, rather than at the client, it's entirely doable. Possibly a bit of a pain in the initial setup, but as long as there are refresh tokens being used, entirely doable.

I'm currently thinking about how this can be done with a client side program, and I've cracked the harder parts of the problem, so once a location API is available, I can take it from there. So you can have a third party app running, which can inform any number of sites when you move. (As long as they have a standard API for position information. Simple enough to do. And a reduced load for them, as it'll only update when you actually move.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2014-10-24 13:01:03 UTC
Looking at it, EVEmon already queries multiple accounts and characters in succession/simultaneously as far as the user cares
So if you want to be a good programmer, you could snag the code they are using there, fail to attribute it, and then hope you removed anything saying it came from EVEmon

Otherwise, i suppose looking through the query spreadsheets and my lacking knowledge of apis in Java, you could just assign each master api to its own variable and then quiz that
Perhaps with a nice blue refresh button for when you want to check

This is going to be my homework isn't it?
Figure out how to query Crest for my accounts and get useful info
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-11-15 00:18:32 UTC


We live in the internet age. It is useful to have a browser in game with game information and tutorials so that you can actually look at the material and the EVE screen at the same time.


Alt+tab is very jarring for a learning experience.


Please keep and update the ingame browser.


+1

Call me Joe.
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-11-15 01:28:10 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
The IGB is not getting updated, once CREST is up to par the IGB will be removed.


How will I survive without linking cat gifs in local? Out of game browser. That requires effort now.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-11-16 12:00:24 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So a final post, as this topic has been talked about in a few threads (one nice threadnaught) before:

We could spend our time keeping the IGB, but when things such as Overwolf and other overlays exist, our time is better spent on the spaceship game.


Thank you for the compact response, but I'd like to point out tat players of Eve Online might play *gasp* other games which are not even remotely compatible with overlays and will crash because of something which is installed but not active for those particular games due to how they hook to the drivers. I've had to remove Overwolf three times fully from my system due to modern games getting rolled over because of them. I will not use an another program to do overlays outside of from Steam-supported games for Steam itself until I can know for sure that my gaming won't be interrupted with "Uhh, guys, need to leave the fleet because this random overlay software keeps crashing some other stuff and I need to uninstall it immediately.