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Un-announced Interface Changes

First post
Author
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#21 - 2014-10-21 13:28:10 UTC
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):

If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2014-10-21 14:10:54 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
agreed i would like to see patch notes for bugfix patches, even if they are just an autogenerated commit log


And almost all of the time you do, see for instance every followup patch we do for the week/two weeks after a release.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2014-10-21 14:15:00 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):

If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?


You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question. Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#24 - 2014-10-21 17:02:06 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question.
Never once did I say or make that assumption. Simple solution would be for developers of various areas to be at least somewhat active in forum threads related features they are working on or stuff they changed. And no, I don't mean active by responding to "Firsties!!!" or "Your hair looks good today" posts.

Unless there is a way for us to find out which developers did do work on specific components so we could direct the questions at them specifically?

CCP Goliath wrote:
Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.

So then you are responding to questions you can't answer... sounds like a quick note to whoever the UI designers are asking to answer this question wouldn't be too far out of reason?

CCP Goliath wrote:
Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.

Funny how this was on the test server when I started the thread, but like most feedback on things, the questions went unanswered, except in this case I continued to follow up instead of giving up like a lot of us have done with soooooo many feedback threads on unfinished features or unanswered questions that have gone by the wayside.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#25 - 2014-10-21 21:42:43 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):

If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?

This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

St1ngerella
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-10-22 02:05:29 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question.
Never once did I say or make that assumption. Simple solution would be for developers of various areas to be at least somewhat active in forum threads related features they are working on or stuff they changed. And no, I don't mean active by responding to "Firsties!!!" or "Your hair looks good today" posts.

Unless there is a way for us to find out which developers did do work on specific components so we could direct the questions at them specifically?

CCP Goliath wrote:
Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.

So then you are responding to questions you can't answer... sounds like a quick note to whoever the UI designers are asking to answer this question wouldn't be too far out of reason?

CCP Goliath wrote:
Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.

Funny how this was on the test server when I started the thread, but like most feedback on things, the questions went unanswered, except in this case I continued to follow up instead of giving up like a lot of us have done with soooooo many feedback threads on unfinished features or unanswered questions that have gone by the wayside.



Why are you so whiny?
CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2014-10-22 02:32:33 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Dangeresque Too wrote:
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):

If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?

This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas.


Correct. We established a need to increase the visibility of the Agents, Guests and Offices tabs in the station panel after playtesting. We therefore redesigned that element of the station panel UI to increase the visibility of those tabs by changing to larger selection buttons for the Agents, Guests and Offices sections of the panel. This brings the selection interface for those sections more in line with the large format services buttons that have long been in the panel.

There is no general change to EVE's UI implied by this decision. It was a specific decision with regard to a specific UI context based on playtesting data.


CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
The Watchmen.
#28 - 2014-10-22 09:59:18 UTC
He doesn't realize that people like him are likely part of the reason if devs don't visit/frequent the forums.
No ones forcing them, apart from community persons it's (afaik) not really part of their job. As a customer you have no right to dev interaction.
I get that it's a thing these days - and I appreciate it - that more and more devs are getting in the open / in touch with the customers/community, but demanding it, especially in non-friendly ways, I do not understand and definately not appreciate.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#29 - 2014-10-22 19:46:50 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Dangeresque Too wrote:
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):

If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?

This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas.


Correct. We established a need to increase the visibility of the Agents, Guests and Offices tabs in the station panel after playtesting. We therefore redesigned that element of the station panel UI to increase the visibility of those tabs by changing to larger selection buttons for the Agents, Guests and Offices sections of the panel. This brings the selection interface for those sections more in line with the large format services buttons that have long been in the panel.

There is no general change to EVE's UI implied by this decision. It was a specific decision with regard to a specific UI context based on playtesting data.

This... this is all that was ever asked for in this thread... though to note, this thread started before EVE Vegas, so to say that it was answered in the EVE Vegas stream is kinda a cop-out.

The reason I continued to ask, because as stated earlier, most issues and changes or feedback never actually get dev responses and then further down the line when something went wrong they say they never got the feedback. Well, they did, they just never bothered to actually acknowledge it. Yes that may sound unnecessarily harsh or mean to feeble people, but the lack of interaction by the very dev's that start feedback threads (even in those threads themselves) has got me to this point.

That and how the first answer was "They were hard to find"... even though they were like that for years and years. Suddenly just now being deemed "hard to find" seemed like a very weak response.

Lastly, something he said just now that took me back a bit... and I want to ask, you sure you are feeling ok? You said CCP did some playtesting to determine the change was needed. It has been my experience over the years on Sisi and the forums that CCP tries their hardest not to playtest changes, and then doesn't understand why people are having issues with them (like the industry change that required corp members to have wallet access in order to start jobs, how does that make it to production?). Too many times have CCP just seemingly outright ignored feedback all-together even though they specifically asked for feedback. Or in some cases asking for feedback at the last minute, and then after being told something was very much broken, saying "well its too far in the development process to change it now" and releasing it anyways.

I'm not trying to **** people off, just attempting for a small bit of dev accountability for changes made without any solid justification that have the potential for more sweeping changes that were never asked for. I'm not blaming the dev's that responded that didn't know, but on that note, if you don't know then you shouldn't be answering in the first place.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#30 - 2014-10-22 19:54:21 UTC
The presentation at EVE Vegas talked about a group of Icelanders CCP brought in that had not played EVE. CCP ran them thru the NPE and did a thorough after action Q and A so they could see what went wrong.

While we as players see dead end actions and other issues with the UI all the time. We work around them without bug reporting them allot of the time. Bringing in new Devs and fresh ideas breaks even the Devs out of the mind set of this is how this always has been and will be.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#31 - 2014-10-28 07:08:32 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question. Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.


You mean that you aren't a single mind dedicated to cause like rogue drones ? Shocked

I'm disappointed. P
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