EVE General Discussion

Would we have any of the modern conviences available to people today without Ford and other such companies? Anyway, you're missing the point.

Estimated value in Eve equals looking up what a product costs at various webshops and taking the average in real life. I don't see the problem. Or how this stat is linked to Eve not being a mirror of our economy. If it were, my boss would probably outsource me to a rival and make me shoot their server. It makes no sense.

The opportunity to exploit these so called estimated values is far more profitable than trying to cheat some noobs into working for a pittance.

There is no problem here, just stop exploiting new players. Potential Wardec incoming if I can be bothered.

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself there.

Okay, lets be constructive eh.

I mine about 750,000 units of veldspar per hour, so we'll use that.
At low buy rate of 15isk/unit, thats 11.25M isk/h.
(if the corp adds orca booster, thats 30% more)

You wanna pay 1M isk/h?

Even a nooby venture can pull in over 2M isk/h.
And a barge is 10 days training to get into.

You give that barge & fit for free, skillbooks and SRP too?
You gonna offer that for a newbro?

Prices can indeed be manipulated if there is a low velocity and/or you are extremely rich, an "fix" could be the average price is only calculated in the trade hubs instead whole of EvE, and the sell or buy order needs to succeed before it counts into the statistic.

The rest of the post seems weird, why do you want to underpay newbies then you gain such a little revenue out of it? Even if you think solely on your own gain, the wisest economic decision would be to hand them enough money to quickly gain acces to higher content so they can pay you back even more later. Seems like with your apporach they will get stuck on their level for ages and would properly leave the game of boredom

Eh, stupidity proofing is just bad in general. People need to not be lazy or careless.

This thread has inspired me though. I'm going to start up a pirate corp.
Step 1: Get 20 people who want to pvp, gank, etc. but also make money mining.
Step 2: Banner it as a mining corp.
Step 3: Get 10 newbies in go on mining ops and get them into mackinaws with their own money.
Step 4: Bring 5 out with the original 20 into a dangerous space to rationalize bringing frigs and cruisers with scrams.
Step 5: Ransom the 5 newbies for their mackinaws on threat of podkill. Have destroyer with full sensor boosting scripted to lock asap, to podkill them anyawy for good measure.
Step 6: Kick em from corp and dock the new macks.
Step 7: Do the same to other 5 and repeat.

Sell free macks on market while mining at the same time.

I've learned not to trust the estimated value in the cargo window. The buy / sell prices on the market can be manipulated to change what the estimated value of your cargo is.

I consider myself to be a mid level scammer at best, and even I am not bothered by the "estimated value" thing.

I don't really know what to say to this. You don't seem to get it.

Let's suppose.
I buy 20 dollars of "metal", and turn that into a car and sell it. In order to profit, I have to charge more than 20$. Does this sound right?
If I buy 20 dollars of "metal", and pay someone else to turn that into a car, I have to calculate the cost of the employee into the car in order to make any profit.
If I was charging 25$ in the first instance, I need to cover the cost of the materials or I take a loss. I need to also get some extra or I don't make any money. Let's say I earmark 20$ coming in as to cover cost of materials. How do I split up the 5$ profit? Give it all to the person I hired to make the car? You seem to think so. What about half? Well, that half cuts into my profit, so I need to raise the price of the car by 2.50, for a grand total of 27.50. That way I can pay the worker and still make a profit of 5$.
If I do the work of gathering "metal" and give it to someone else and then turn around and sell it and make no profit, there's absolutely NO reason for me to continue doing it.

This is business 001, not even 101. How do you think Ford and the Ford Company both got rich, even as Ford paid for all those things? You have a naive perspective of it. What do you think Coca Cola did when the burden of minimum wage and Environmental cleanup tax became too great? They shipped their factories to africa, where cheaper labor and no Enviro laws maximized their profits once again. Where do you think Microsoft and Bill Gates, who make your Xbox and other electronics get their labor? From cheap 12 cents an hour labor, because its cheaper to get it put together there than pay people inside the U.S. at minimum wage to put it together.

I hope you're seeing the picture now. Ford and the Ford company didnt get personally rich by selling cars "at cost". At cost means that, back to the 20$ analogy, he pays 20$ for material, gets a worker to do it, and then sells it for 25, splitting the income back into material at 20$, and worker at 5$. The company owner is not making anything for himself, and the company isn't going to expand. Without expansion, more workers can't be hired.

If Ford paid 20$ for mats, and hired 1 worker, and sold the car for 30$, he has to split the 10$ gain between himself, the worker, and investment back into the company, that's a 3 way split, and equally that means 3.33$. But we know that's not how people who build their own companies get rich, by only paying themselves as much as their worker.

If Ford pays 20$ for mats, and hires 10 workers, does he still sell at 30$ and then pay the workers substantially less per person, or does he raise the price of the finished product a lot so that he can still AFFORD to pay those workers the same 3.33$ while getting 1/3 for himself and 1/3 for the company as reinvestment? Well guess what, if he does the latter, It's now a 120$ dollar car, and he's making MUCH more money himself compared to each individual worker, and the company is also making much more.


But uh oh, here comes enlightened workers, on strike because he's doing very little work himself yet profiting so well compared to the individual worker. Better get out the pitchforks. This is where you come in.

In claiming all the good things Ford did for his workers or other altruistic acts, you seem to be whitewashing and neglecting facts of business. Money doesn't sprout from your ass, not even for Bill Gates.

There has to be a profit margin, and profit margins only occur when employees, material costs, etc, do not equal or outweigh the income from sales. In Eve Terms, this would be selling something at 1 mil that you bought for 800k, but if the miners employed believe that they should get every ISK that they would get at market, you can make no profit buying it and selling it.

All those "altrustic" corps have one thing in common when they're handing out free stuff to you; they're supporting themselves off of ratting and looting and salvaging in almost all ways.

0.0 renters actually have a more "taking advantage of" business model, why don't you go complain to them.