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Typhoon Fleet Issue
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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-10-13 01:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeshah Volfield
Any tips on how to improve the following fit for level 4 missions would be much appreciated:

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, TFI Armor]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
[Empty High slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x5
Hammerhead II x5

If at all possible without running into severe CPU issues, I'd prefer a T2 fit aside from the BCS and maybe minor pimp, as long as it doesn't become a loot piñata. Also, I do plan on using mission specific hardeners.

Thank you in advance and fly safe o7

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-10-13 10:20:13 UTC
Due to the explosion bonus, the normal typhoon possibly runs most missions faster. Fleet phoon is superior only against the larger targets.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#3 - 2014-10-13 12:58:44 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Due to the explosion bonus, the normal typhoon possibly runs most missions faster. Fleet phoon is superior only against the larger targets.


Nah. Fleet typhoon has also that extra sentry drone in there and it's the highest damage missile platform as far just missiles go. With 2 painters the exp velocity is anyway pretty much meaningless against the speeds that NPC's have in missions (other than spider drones).

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2014-10-13 15:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Carniflex wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Due to the explosion bonus, the normal typhoon possibly runs most missions faster. Fleet phoon is superior only against the larger targets.


Nah. Fleet typhoon has also that extra sentry drone in there and it's the highest damage missile platform as far just missiles go. With 2 painters the exp velocity is anyway pretty much meaningless against the speeds that NPC's have in missions (other than spider drones).

Just to be pedantic, thinking that Flares and Explosion Velocity bonuses are good at hitting fast moving targets is the wrong way to think about them.

The explosion velocity bonus is just a weaker explosion radius bonus. If you look at the missile damage formula: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage, you'll see that the (S/E * Ve/Vt) are multiplied, so bonuses to missile explosion radius or velocity look like this:
15% Explosion Radius: 1/.85 * S/E * Ve/Vt, or 1.176 * S/E * Ve/Vt
15% Explosion Velocity: 1.15 * S/E * Ve/Vt
Which means that a Flare or Rigor rig helps against both target sig and target velocity.

However, a 15% Rigor is the equivalent of (1/.85 = 1.176) a 17.6% Flare rig and a 15% Flare rig is the equivalent of a 13.0% Rigor rig. A 20% Flare is the equivalent of a 16.7% rigor (so Flare II > Rigor I.)


However^2, Rigors affect both formulas: (S/E) and (S/E * Ve/Vt). Generally speaking, the 2nd part of the missile formula (S/E * Ve/Vt) tends to dominate applied damage so it's not that great of an advantage. (A Flare II is normally better than a Rigor I even though it doesn't affect the first (S/E) part of the missile formula.)


tl;dr - An Explosion Velocity bonus (e.g. Flare rig) is a poor man's Explosion Radius bonus (e.g. Rigor rig.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-10-13 15:44:00 UTC
could u say that again in english pls?

i mean simply
stoicfaux
#6 - 2014-10-13 15:55:40 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
could u say that again in english pls?

i mean simply

Rigor II > Flare II > Rigor I > Flare I.

Explosion radius bonus helps against both target size and target speed.

Velocity bonus helps against both target size and target speed, meaning don't make the mistake of thinking that Fare rigs are extra special against fast moving targets such as Spider Drones.

Rigors provide more value than Fares. A 15% Rigor is the equivalent a 17.6% Flare rig, i.e. a Rigor rig is better against fast targets than a Flare rig.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-10-13 17:17:47 UTC
You want to improve it but there isnt much to be done without pimping it.
If you want more tank you will have to sacrifice some dps and if you want more dps you're crazy ;)
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2014-10-13 18:34:53 UTC
Reminds me why I don't fly spit weapon ships.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Bullet Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
Metropolis Defense
#9 - 2014-10-13 21:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Anarchy
Guns won today where I was at.

Wasn't no fancy Navy ship, just the old rust bucket..

On Target
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-10-14 01:21:03 UTC
Looks pretty light on tank. If you can keep good range you might be able to use it.
Bullet Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
Metropolis Defense
#11 - 2014-10-14 10:25:14 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Looks pretty light on tank. If you can keep good range you might be able to use it.


I wouldn't be complaining about it, a lot of offence bonus mods, not sure I would put that many but at the end of the day they can't shoot back if they dead already.

On Target
Kamii OhnoKazii
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#12 - 2014-10-16 17:39:08 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Due to the explosion bonus, the normal typhoon possibly runs most missions faster. Fleet phoon is superior only against the larger targets.


Nah. Fleet typhoon has also that extra sentry drone in there and it's the highest damage missile platform as far just missiles go. With 2 painters the exp velocity is anyway pretty much meaningless against the speeds that NPC's have in missions (other than spider drones).

Just to be pedantic, thinking that Flares and Explosion Velocity bonuses are good at hitting fast moving targets is the wrong way to think about them.

The explosion velocity bonus is just a weaker explosion radius bonus. If you look at the missile damage formula: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage, you'll see that the (S/E * Ve/Vt) are multiplied, so bonuses to missile explosion radius or velocity look like this:
15% Explosion Radius: 1/.85 * S/E * Ve/Vt, or 1.176 * S/E * Ve/Vt
15% Explosion Velocity: 1.15 * S/E * Ve/Vt
Which means that a Flare or Rigor rig helps against both target sig and target velocity.

However, a 15% Rigor is the equivalent of (1/.85 = 1.176) a 17.6% Flare rig and a 15% Flare rig is the equivalent of a 13.0% Rigor rig. A 20% Flare is the equivalent of a 16.7% rigor (so Flare II > Rigor I.)


However^2, Rigors affect both formulas: (S/E) and (S/E * Ve/Vt). Generally speaking, the 2nd part of the missile formula (S/E * Ve/Vt) tends to dominate applied damage so it's not that great of an advantage. (A Flare II is normally better than a Rigor I even though it doesn't affect the first (S/E) part of the missile formula.)


tl;dr - An Explosion Velocity bonus (e.g. Flare rig) is a poor man's Explosion Radius bonus (e.g. Rigor rig.)


When I take over all of EVE, I am putting you in charge of the science experimentation camps... :)
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#13 - 2014-10-19 10:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
That is what I run on my fleet phoon.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, TFI L4 armor]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Garde II x5
Warrior II x10
Garde II x1

Small footage of the setup: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1404/TFI_vs_Blockade%28Angels%29.wmv

In general you want the extra flare rig for the application, I never used anything else than fury missiles with it, since you can still one volley nearly every Cruiser or BC with them(2 for elite cruisers) and the drones or guns will deal with stuff like 20% leftover structure(rarely happens). A mwd really helps to position the ship right for the garde II use and the auto cannons help a lot to take down frigs and destroyers without using missiles or light drones on them. After the last changes to BS mwds, a core b type might also do the trick.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Due to the explosion bonus, the normal typhoon possibly runs most missions faster. Fleet phoon is superior only against the larger targets.


The fleet phoon does considerable more DPS with the stronger missile bonus, extra sentry drones and turret bonus. From my own experience it produces faster mission times, by the higher dps and application isn't a issue on the fleet phoon, since you can always use drones or guns to finish up sub BS targets that not go down in a single volley.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Reminds me why I don't fly spit weapon ships.


Actually if you fly them for a bit, you get so used to it that it feels like something is missing when you fly a normal hull.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Bullet Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
Metropolis Defense
#14 - 2014-10-30 23:57:08 UTC
Got one waiting for me right now, keep those Raven fits away from mine

On Target
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#15 - 2014-10-31 02:51:15 UTC
At work so don't have fit handy, but you can shield tank it and run DDA's with your BCS's so you get extra dps out of 5 sentries, or all you're drone for that matter.

... What next ??
Bullet Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
Metropolis Defense
#16 - 2014-11-19 19:44:02 UTC
So if you fired all that in PVP would it all bounce off ?

On Target