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Missions & Complexes

 
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Returning player, mission runner, question.

First post
Author
Empyre
Chaotic Balance
#1 - 2014-10-17 16:24:19 UTC
Why is there still a 4 hour cooldown on mission rejection? This was the single-most frustrating and distracting feature in the system for the years that I played back in the day. I'm shocked to return and see it is still there. Does it really require 4 hours to dissuade people from cycling requests to get the mission they want or am I missing the point of that cooldown altogether? And why, after all these years, hasn't the mission system found a better feature than a timer that lasts half of an entire work day, that often stands right in the way of a mission runners desire to play the missions they enjoy playing?

4 hours is too long to wait. I have never once run up against that timer and thought to myself, "hm, I should maybe find yet ANOTHER agent to manage just to possibly get a mission I want." Instead I've just logged off wondering why the game keeps wanting to punish me for mere mission preference. Because more often than not I end up with so many missions queued up that I don't want to do that I forget to go back and decline one of them after the 4 hours has lapsed anyway. And by that time I've spent more time moving equipment around to support the necessary re-equips for all the missions than I have running any missions. It's a really bad and clunky feature. I'd love to come back and play some missions after my free time has expired but I just can't stomach it when that looming 4 hour penalty keeps reminding me of just how much frustration it has caused me over the years. It's one of the two reasons I quit playing in the first place.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-10-17 17:06:43 UTC
Blitzing It's not a problem if you do it right.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

voetius
Grundrisse
#3 - 2014-10-17 17:43:36 UTC

Get your faction standing up to 6+ (so you have a bit of leeway) and find an agent that doesn't constantly want to send you to low sec and has a reasonable mission pool and you can serial decline. As long as you are only declining 1 in 3 or 4 you can do this semi-permanently.

Just keep an eye on your standings in the beginning so you can see whether you are dipping a bit too low. Having more than one agent in a station helps as well as you can switch between them.

It's a non-issue if you do it right.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2014-10-17 18:28:17 UTC
eve is just a whole bunch of trade offs. if they got rid of the 4 hour timer they might as well just give you a drop down list and let you pick the mission you wanted. I won't say the 4 hour timer is perfect game design, but it is better than was I just described.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-10-17 20:05:10 UTC
Empyre wrote:
Why is there still a 4 hour cooldown on mission rejection? This was the single-most frustrating and distracting feature in the system for the years that I played back in the day. I'm shocked to return and see it is still there. Does it really require 4 hours to dissuade people from cycling requests to get the mission they want or am I missing the point of that cooldown altogether? And why, after all these years, hasn't the mission system found a better feature than a timer that lasts half of an entire work day, that often stands right in the way of a mission runners desire to play the missions they enjoy playing?

4 hours is too long to wait. I have never once run up against that timer and thought to myself, "hm, I should maybe find yet ANOTHER agent to manage just to possibly get a mission I want." Instead I've just logged off wondering why the game keeps wanting to punish me for mere mission preference. Because more often than not I end up with so many missions queued up that I don't want to do that I forget to go back and decline one of them after the 4 hours has lapsed anyway. And by that time I've spent more time moving equipment around to support the necessary re-equips for all the missions than I have running any missions. It's a really bad and clunky feature. I'd love to come back and play some missions after my free time has expired but I just can't stomach it when that looming 4 hour penalty keeps reminding me of just how much frustration it has caused me over the years. It's one of the two reasons I quit playing in the first place.


It doesn't mean you can't run a mission for 4 hours. It just means you will take a standings hit. A minimal hit at that. That can easily be fixed by running about 2-3 missions (depending on skills). Geez, of the things in EVE to whine about, this is one of the least things to whine about. You want us to fit your ships and run your missions for you too?
Empyre
Chaotic Balance
#6 - 2014-10-17 21:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Stop with the over-the-top counter reaction, it's a serious question. I'm 10.0 with the corps I'm running the missions for and have run countless missions, a ridiculous number since the dawn of like.. whenever I joined in 05. The 4 hour timer is nothing but a horrible inconvenience to the entire process. To run missions well you want to run them as quickly as you comfortably can and yet this element of the game has one of the longest time-sinks associated with turning down a mission. I'm 10.0 with my agent and still get the same RNG pick as anyone who can use the agent. If you've worked up an agent to max standings they should at least not make you fly 2 systems away to run a mission you're going to want to loot and salvage or go from idolizing you in conversation to pretending like you just let their kid die if you dare say no thanks. A more realistic cooldown timer would be the average time it took to run 1-2 of the missions of the same level as the agent. Not the rest of your day.

*Snip* Please refrain from off topic ranting. ISD Ezwal.[/quote]
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-10-17 21:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Empyre wrote:
Stop with the over-the-top counter reaction, it's a serious question. I'm 10.0 with the corps I'm running the missions for and have run countless missions, a ridiculous number since the dawn of like.. whenever I joined in 05. The 4 hour timer is nothing but a horrible inconvenience to the entire process. To run missions well you want to run them as quickly as you comfortably can and yet this element of the game has one of the longest time-sinks associated with turning down a mission. I'm 10.0 with my agent and still get the same RNG pick as anyone who can use the agent. If you've worked up an agent to max standings they should at least not make you fly 2 systems away to run a mission you're going to want to loot and salvage or go from idolizing you in conversation to pretending like you just let their kid die if you dare say no thanks. A more realistic cooldown timer would be the average time it took to run 1-2 of the missions of the same level as the agent. Not the rest of your day.

*Snip* Please refrain from off topic ranting. ISD Ezwal.


Yes, I too get to pick which chore I get to do at my job all the time. Welcome to the real world.
If you had been playing for that long, you would have known better than to place all your eggs in once basket, namely your faction standing with a single person instead of diversifying. There are plenty of L4 "hubs" of a half-dozen or so agents within 2-4 jumps of each other. Do some research before crying on the forums.
Paranoid Loyd
#8 - 2014-10-17 21:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Lol, I knew I should have trolled you. Chill out dude. Did you read what was written and/or linked, or are you just here to complain?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-10-17 22:21:42 UTC
Carebears gonna whine. What can ya do?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2014-10-18 05:12:12 UTC
so don't loot contraband, I'm pretty sure you can't even loot the stuff without hitting okay on a box or two.

I went for 9.9 faction standings for the 2 run CNR Bpc (in retrospect I dunno why), so I just ran every mission that came up. I really dunno what the issue is here.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#11 - 2014-10-18 06:22:32 UTC
I had 9.9 standing with Gallente & over 9 standing with Minmatar before too. That was like 2010 or 11, and since then I said feck it my standings are too high and it doesn't do much for me. So I just started declining whatever I didn't like, sometimes I'd reject like over 10 missions in a row if I really don't get what I want or if I'm looking for a specific mission to test my fit/ship or run with a corp mate. After years of doing this, now in 2014, my Gallente/Minmatar standings are STILL over 8.0, which is more than enough for my purposes.

Admittedly, I don't run missions full time so you may run down your standings quicker than I did. But the standing hit you get with rejecting missions outright is really really tiny as almost not to matter at all. If, for whatever reason, you really want to keep your pristine high standing, then that really is your choice and 4 hours down time is consequence of choice you make.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2014-10-18 17:14:34 UTC
feel free to post a better idea over in Features & Ideas https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270

I have felt for a long time that standings should matter more, but ccp seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#13 - 2014-10-18 22:47:00 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-18 23:21:46 UTC
Stage a couple of ships at different agents if you really need to get around the 4 hour timer.
Empyre
Chaotic Balance
#15 - 2014-10-19 13:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Empyre
Yeah I've done all that. I have ships, jump clones and equipment all over the place. It's still quite a pain in the butt to move around in Eve on that scale while still maintaining any semblance of efficiency. It just plain sucks to work agents all the way up and still have to sit on 4 hour timers with your best agents because you don't want to take heavy faction hitters or really long missions if you don't have the play time to support it when it comes up.

A lot of things in Eve have changed for the better in this regard. The new industry changes have made it SO much easier to deal with industry and its shaved a lot of time off the process. Ships got more agile, skills were introduced to reduce the jump clone cool down, anchoring things got EXTREMELY faster. The new missions are kind of cool sounding and its going to be fun to try them out when I get one. But isn't it time the mission system itself got a little love and overhaul to make it more time efficient and pleasant to use? A 4 hour timer just seems archaic.

And furthermore, Is it so bad that a player may want to hang some pictures up and call some place their home? Settling-in is what its about anywhere else in the game. Hell wormhole space wasn't intended to be used that way and yet people still found a way to settle in. Give mission runners the same options. If we go through the grind to get an agent up high in standings, we should get a far better choice over missions AND they should give missions within the same system if you're really high standings with them. We've got all sorts of new options for anchoring things and setting up shop. Let us mission runners play with them as well!!
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-10-20 14:56:31 UTC
The standings hit for declining is not that bad, and can be fixed easily. All the other mission runners work around that minimal irritation (if it is even that) and don't seem to mind it. Even mission blitzers know how to work around this and don't complain about it much. If your game playing time is so limited, then maybe EVE is not for you.

Posting in a stealth buff hisec missions thread.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-10-20 15:23:55 UTC
i agree with the op +1
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-10-20 16:09:51 UTC
The point that some people fail to see or are deliberately ignoring is that missions function less like a 9-5 job and more like a bounty-hunter system. You walk up to the desk and say "whaddya got?" instead of getting to pick and choose like it's the Dollar Menu.

Is the current system flawed? Maybe, but if you got a better idea that's even semi-balanced, post in F&I instead of ranting in here.
Empyre
Chaotic Balance
#19 - 2014-10-21 16:20:51 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:

Is the current system flawed? Maybe, but if you got a better idea that's even semi-balanced, post in F&I instead of ranting in here.


Nice passive aggressiveness but the mods removed the rants. I came in to the forum about missions to ask a question about the feature first. I don't think its particularly responsible to come back to the game after taking a couple years off, after the game has changed considerably, and start posting ideas without having more information first.
Beness
Vojtech Fekete
#20 - 2014-10-27 16:56:59 UTC
Empyre wrote:
Yeah I've done all that. I have ships, jump clones and equipment all over the place. It's still quite a pain in the butt to move around in Eve on that scale while still maintaining any semblance of efficiency. It just plain sucks to work agents all the way up and still have to sit on 4 hour timers with your best agents because you don't want to take heavy faction hitters or really long missions if you don't have the play time to support it when it comes up.

Enabling L4 chaining in the most efficient manner possible is probably not a design goal at CCP. See the mobility requirements on Incursion runners - although these will be somewhat mitigated by the Tug.

The 4 hour CD has several important effects that probably align to CCP goals of driving diversity and engagement.

  • Passing the 4 hour CD through a different activity (Incursions, Exploration, Industry, PI, etc) drives player engagement in a diverse set of activities, highlighting the features in Eve that are not available elsewhere (diversity).
  • Players running multiple accounts to have multiple different CDs makes running missions more efficient, and is good for CCP. I seem to remember a study showing that players who actively use multiple characters are more engaged in the Eve universe.
  • Players running missions with other people achieves the same goal as multiple accounts without having to run multiple accounts. Players playing an MMO with other people probably meets CCP design goals.

For me, the 4 hour CD promotes different activities. Exploration has been reasonably profitable for a while (probably somewhere between 50M and 100M isk/h in loot, accounting for the random nature of drops) - although it seems to be getting stealthily nerfed these days.

By logging off, you're probably not meeting their design goals. However, given CCP Seagull's focus on promoting player interaction, I'd be surprised if changing this ends up being a priority.
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