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A possible drone counter solution
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Spencer Owl
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-10-16 20:02:56 UTC
Infrequent wrote:


Drones are not immune to ewar, stop spouting crap. If you jam/damp the bunny (or just spread ewar) you greatly reduce their effectiveness, sentries rely on their alpha and of course without their ability to quickly switch targets or even focus the primary whether it be due to damps or jams on the host ship, they become useless. Stop talking as if drones don't completely rely on the pilot's ship, take a look at any sentry doctrine and you'll see they all have hard counters. Slowcats die to alpha nags and mass void bombs, ishtars die to anything that can apply dps if they're shield setup, armor ishtars are mean but they are vulnerable to hard brawl setups, bombs and neuts, potatoes (sentry BCs and BS) die to alpha, bombs and kiting, drone frigs don't even need a hard counter. All of these ships are vulnerable to some form of ewar, and ewar can be fit in with most fleet comps. Let's not forget that once you pull a sentry fleet away from it's sentries you can defang them with ease, it isn't hard to get a smartbomber in there, rinse repeat and voila you have a dead weight fleet with no to mindlessly beat on.


I'm not talking about ewar to a single drone but the ship that controls those drones. This would trickle down to those drones controlled by that ship (not including assisted drones from other pilots). It's also near impossible to Neut a fleet moving of drone boats keeping range. Unless the anchor is an incompetent. Jamming, neuting, or damping single drones isn't very effective to begin with, particularly when there's hundreds on grid. Bombing is only possible in NS.

There are certainly some counters. I feel as if 1 more would balance the field.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2014-10-16 21:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Infrequent wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
the counter to drones is the fact that tey are the only weapon system that can be destroyed, use bombs/smartbombs or just ******* shoot them.

your literally asking for them to have every disadvantage of a turret/launcher, with no benefits to compensate, they are already the only weapon system that can be destroyed, thats a "counter" enough, especially sicne disengaging witht hem is difficult, since you either wait to recall them before leaving, the entire time having 0 DPS, or you gtfo without them, and no longer have a weapon system



You're an idiot. Drones are immune to ECM, SD, and TD (Because you are unreasonable, I know you will say: "you can ECM the drones individually, derp!)

They are ridiculously overpowered right now, and their needs to be a counter to them Ewar wise at the very least. Bombs are wonderful but you can't use them in low. Smartbombing works, sort of, as long as that ship is not tackled.


Drones are not immune to ewar, stop spouting crap. If you jam/damp the bunny (or just spread ewar) you greatly reduce their effectiveness, sentries rely on their alpha and of course without their ability to quickly switch targets or even focus the primary whether it be due to damps or jams on the host ship, they become useless. Stop talking as if drones don't completely rely on the pilot's ship, take a look at any sentry doctrine and you'll see they all have hard counters. Slowcats die to alpha nags and mass void bombs, ishtars die to anything that can apply dps if they're shield setup, armor ishtars are mean but they are vulnerable to hard brawl setups, bombs and neuts, potatoes (sentry BCs and BS) die to alpha, bombs and kiting, drone frigs don't even need a hard counter. All of these ships are vulnerable to some form of ewar, and ewar can be fit in with most fleet comps. Let's not forget that once you pull a sentry fleet away from it's sentries you can defang them with ease, it isn't hard to get a smartbomber in there, rinse repeat and voila you have a dead weight fleet with no to mindlessly beat on.

but infrequent, that requires work and isnt doable by just pressing f1 and waiting to win or die by alphabetical name order, its unreasonable to expect us to WORK to counter a fleet



Now I see the problem, I'm speaking to nulltard blobbers.

Drones are incredibly op because the host ship can also neut or shoot etcetc. Why are drone ships so overly represented in nearly every type of PvP?

Ah what's the point, logic doesn't work on fools.

In fact, let's nerf missiles or another Caldari ship again, I hear they are crazy.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#23 - 2014-10-17 03:24:15 UTC
Spencer Owl wrote:
Infrequent wrote:


Drones are not immune to ewar, stop spouting crap. If you jam/damp the bunny (or just spread ewar) you greatly reduce their effectiveness, sentries rely on their alpha and of course without their ability to quickly switch targets or even focus the primary whether it be due to damps or jams on the host ship, they become useless. Stop talking as if drones don't completely rely on the pilot's ship, take a look at any sentry doctrine and you'll see they all have hard counters. Slowcats die to alpha nags and mass void bombs, ishtars die to anything that can apply dps if they're shield setup, armor ishtars are mean but they are vulnerable to hard brawl setups, bombs and neuts, potatoes (sentry BCs and BS) die to alpha, bombs and kiting, drone frigs don't even need a hard counter. All of these ships are vulnerable to some form of ewar, and ewar can be fit in with most fleet comps. Let's not forget that once you pull a sentry fleet away from it's sentries you can defang them with ease, it isn't hard to get a smartbomber in there, rinse repeat and voila you have a dead weight fleet with no to mindlessly beat on.


I'm not talking about ewar to a single drone but the ship that controls those drones. This would trickle down to those drones controlled by that ship (not including assisted drones from other pilots). It's also near impossible to Neut a fleet moving of drone boats keeping range. Unless the anchor is an incompetent. Jamming, neuting, or damping single drones isn't very effective to begin with, particularly when there's hundreds on grid. Bombing is only possible in NS.

There are certainly some counters. I feel as if 1 more would balance the field.


There are three issues currently with what you are talking about:

1) The sentries are a battleship platform weapon, but the Ishtar and Navy Vexor can use 5 of them.
2) Cruisers should never be able to deploy 5 sentry drones.
3) Lack of Definition between sentry and heavy.

Sentry drones have no real hard counter, but they don't necessarily need one. The ships capable of deploying sentries do need an adjustment.

I'd make heavy drones all 20 bandwidth, down from 25.
I'd drop the Vexor Navy and the Ishtar's bandwidth down to 100 from 125.

You want 5 drones, you'll have to use heavies.
You want to use sentries, your stuck with a max of 4, unless you use a battleship or the Gallente T2 Battlecruiser.

You drop the damage potential of the Vexor Navy and the Ishtar by a whopping 20% when using sentry drones, but you keep their current damage capability if you use heavy drones.

You address the issue by addressing the source. The Vexor Navy and the Ishtar should not be capable of fielding 5 sentry drones. They are Cruisers, not Battleships, not Carriers.




Yaay!!!!
Glendon Eto
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-11-21 02:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Glendon Eto
I think the problem for me really only pertains to VNI/Ishtar fleets with sentries. There is no real counter to a fleet of these ships using another fleet of the same class. There are really no other cruisers that can project damage to the extent that a sentry fleet can similar with mobility. I am not saying there are no counters, but the counters are exotic and some (like bombs) cant be used in all sectors of space.

I agree with the previous poster that sentries are a battleship class weapon. But I would take it a step farther and not allow sentries on any class of ship lower than a battleship. I think the only real way to solve the problem without nerfing drones is the simply make sentries only deployable by battleship class. A fleet of battleships is not nearly as mobile and large turrets and missiles have similar range projection so counters would be less exotic and available in all systems.

The Ishtar/vni would still be great brawling cruisers which is really what they are meant to do (sorry haters), and could still be a decent range ship with the use of standard drones.
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-11-21 02:46:32 UTC
Hmmm thinking thinking..

What about a problike high slot module the simply throws a drone away every cycle and stuns it for a moment call a "Targeted Micro E.m.p"

Shocked im a stunned drone now...

o7

Vapor

The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
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