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(bomber rebalance) Decloaking other cloaked ships change.
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epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#1 - 2014-10-16 14:36:01 UTC

I have been reading the changes being implemented to balance bombers, and there is a section saying that cloaked ships will now decloak each other.

Does this not completely change the entire way combat and travel occurs in wormhole space other than strictly solo?

It seems it will not be possible to fleet warp cloaked fleets after this, as we will decloak each other in warp and cannot be avoided.
Can the CSM confirm that such a severe change, is actually intended for wormhole space, or have we one again been completely disregarded and are just collateral damage and tough luck?
What?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Terrorfrodo

Interbus Universal

Likes received: 768

#2 - 2014-10-16 15:01:48 UTC

1. Old news
2. This is just a return to how things were until 2012 (you are really as young as your forum character's age, I guess)
3. The change is made to nerf ISboxer fleets in Nullsec, so yes, we are kind of collateral damage
4. But there are also upsides, like ability to intentionally decloak another cloaked ship with your own cloaked ship; it's not strictly a nerf, just different gameplay

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#3 - 2014-10-16 15:09:22 UTC

Terrorfrodo wrote:

I am fully aware of how it was previously, and whole new tactics apply now that were not viable then.
the question is Has Fozzie realised that The entire cloaking meta in wormholes is now changed?

If it is intentional, and he has a plan (even if We might not agree) that is something we can live with.

If we are getting serious and fundamental changes occurring, without any thought and regard to how we need to adapt, then That is really not right.

Cloaking and cloaked travel Is the single significant defining feature of wormhole combat and travel. NOT something to be ignored.

I would hope that Fozzie has realised by now, that people get tired with having to react to the effects of other peoples rebalancing dropping on us?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

King Fu Hostile

Mea Culpa.

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 330

#4 - 2014-10-16 15:25:00 UTC

I think the current way is better than what we had and will have, but it's manageable. What bothers me however is the total ignorance about other uses of cloaks evident in this chapter:

Quote:

The change that allowed cloaked ships to pass through each other without decloaking was made back in 2012 to make bombing easier. With the last few years of evidence to look at, it becomes clear that organizing bombing runs has become a bit too easy.
This change will add some more complexity to organizing multiple cloaked ships, as well as returning the old gameplay of attempting to decloak other players with your own cloaked ship.
We know that some players are going to be unhappy with the way this makes their gameplay more challenging, but bombing was very viable before the cloaking change and it will continue to be very viable after.

To him it's only about bombers.

Hedion University Amarr Empire 14
Zoltar Nosisk Hedion University Amarr Empire Likes received: 14	#5 - 2014-10-16 15:25:10 UTC 1 Mate, u think fozzie gives 2 ***** about your wormholes? Wormhole popolation is maybe 2% of nullsec

Phoenix Jones

Small-Arms Fire

Likes received: 1,637

#6 - 2014-10-16 15:26:46 UTC | Edited by: Phoenix Jones

... I see no actual issues in wormhole space with this.

This did not effect us much at all in 2012, and I don't see this reversion back as either good or bad.

Business as usual.

Edit: I've lived in both eras. We generally are not in such a huge cloaking fleet that this would turn into a significant issue. Maybe that's changed and I've gotten use to not being decloakable by a cloaky. The only issues I've had with that was in regards to bombing runs (which is what the majority of the stealth bomber people are concerned about).

Not the end of the world.

Yaay!!!!

Sons Of Mother's Friend Can i bring my Drake... 465
RudinV Sons Of Mother's Friend Can i bring my Drake... Likes received: 465	#7 - 2014-10-16 15:37:23 UTC might miss smth, but what is "wormhole cloaking meta" u talking about?

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#8 - 2014-10-16 15:43:07 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

RudinV wrote:

might miss smth, but what is "wormhole cloaking meta" u talking about?

Hey, no skin of my nose, If you don't use cloaked ships or only travel on your own , well, not going to be an issue is it, But if a few travel together looking for content, well, just never going to see any when you warp across system visible on D scan are we?

But I guess if we all warp thirty seconds apart, and make sure all the faster ships go first, and at different distances to the arrival point, moving away to different (invisible) compass points, again and again, Seems easy enough, We should all have so much fun! Roll

You do realise that we will now decloak each other IN WARP Question

never mind on landing?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE


Terrorfrodo Interbus Universal Likes received: 768	#9 - 2014-10-16 15:45:04 UTC It doesn't exist. The change was made in 2012 solely to buff bombing runs, and it is now reverted to nerf bombing runs. Wspace has no special connection to this issue. .

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#10 - 2014-10-16 15:46:08 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Terrorfrodo wrote:

It doesn't exist. The change was made in 2012 solely to buff bombing runs, and it is now reverted to nerf bombing runs. Wspace has no special connection to this issue.

Just the effects.
Never mind, Hopefully someone who knows and can answer whether wormhole space has been considered at all will answer.

I do not ISOBOX or operate bombers in null, But does this change not Give ISOboxers even more of an advantage, as is it not easier to keep a constant distance for them rather than players doing it individually?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 170
350125GO Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 170	#11 - 2014-10-16 15:49:04 UTC I haven't seen fleets of cloaky ships in WH's. Is it possible your doing it the wrong way? BTW see my sig for how I really feel about OP's concern. You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#12 - 2014-10-16 15:51:59 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

350125GO wrote:

I haven't seen fleets of cloaky ships in WH's. Is it possible your doing it the wrong way? BTW see my sig for how I really feel about OP's concern.

Well I would hope you would not see invisible ships, And I am not talking about adjusting, Yes of course it can be done.
Would you like to read the post and try to understand the question?

[quote]Can the CSM confirm that such a severe change, is actually intended for wormhole space, or have we one again been completely disregarded and are just collateral damage and tough luck?/quote]

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Terrorfrodo

Interbus Universal

Likes received: 768

#13 - 2014-10-16 15:55:08 UTC

I fondly remember how I once watched a Heron spawn at a wormhole, align to a planet at high speed, drop probes and then cloak. I had no chance to tackle it right away, but I got into a position between the hole and the planet, then aligned cloaked to the planet and, being faster than the cloaked Heron, eventually caught up to him and decloaked him with my own cloaked ship. He even dropped a Sisters Probe Launcher. Just a Heron, but it was immense fun to kill him that way. He probably still believes that it was just incredibly bad luck to be decloaked 50 km off a wormhole.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#14 - 2014-10-16 15:59:40 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Terrorfrodo wrote:

That does sound interesting, but you maybe have a slightly rosy memory of the event. Particularly as the heron Cannot warp cloaked, (or do you mean Buzzard?) and you could have uncloaked at any time in warp if you wished to drop on him when he was parked, cloaked........ Does not actually relate to this matter at all, But a fun story I guess?

But why, When CCP originally announced it that was a bug, cloaked ships decloaking cloaked ships was an error and not intended, and they would fix it, Were so many people happy?

Yes, I have heard Plenty of people criticise ISOboxing bombers, But none saying that fixing that bug was a mistake.

Maybe CCP should address and cure the problem Rather than giving the entire population such powerful medicine?
Especially when It effects others more strongly than those you are trying to cure?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE


RudinV Sons Of Mother's Friend Can i bring my Drake... Likes received: 465	#15 - 2014-10-16 16:12:26 UTC i think u should call doctor.

Royal Sphynx Ltd 23
Teleil Zoomers Royal Sphynx Ltd Likes received: 23	#16 - 2014-10-16 16:14:12 UTC i'm more concerned over the bombers rebalancing than the cloaking. more hp, less agile, larger sig radius, 2 second longer bomb times. they might as well just bump them up to destroyer class, lose the bombs and use them as a torpedoe platform only.

Doomheim 94
Pro TIps Doomheim Likes received: 94	#17 - 2014-10-16 17:31:50 UTC Not every game mechanic can be designed entirely around the concerns of W-space.

Blue-Fire 677
Aquila Sagitta Blue-Fire Likes received: 677	#18 - 2014-10-16 17:50:12 UTC 1 No one even mentioned how this is gonna effect blops Blue-Fire Best Fire

Lloyd Roses

Artificial Memories

Likes received: 1,356

#19 - 2014-10-16 17:52:59 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It hardly changes anything tbh. With the new spawning mechanics (hyperion tm), ships are scattered significantly after wormhole travel. So unlike during the last period of ships decloaking each other on TQ, this time you don't spawn into each other because you're 2k of the wormhole and everyone almost inside each other, but you land 4-8km (atleast that's where it puts my cruiser/frigsized ships) off the hole.
Given the advanced QoL-Hack of everyone please click *keep distance bigger than current to wormhole*, it is quite impossible to decloak each other. As for warping a many ships to a cloaked www, this can backfire. But I'm confident people can come up with warp-in patterns to avoid that hazzle, since you can select a warp distance down to the meter.

Now, with capitals landing THIS far of the hole, this might also mess up some cloaked archons - though haven't seen that in a while.

Treasury Department Plug N Play 441
chris elliot Treasury Department Plug N Play Likes received: 441	#20 - 2014-10-16 18:00:54 UTC Just learn to ISBox like everyone else and these won't affect you at all.