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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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exponentialy increasing Fatigue
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Ben Ishikela
#1 - 2014-10-12 15:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Ishikela
EDIT: Closed.
Jump Fatigue not good.
I found something better: Power Projection: A Brighter Future
/EDIT

Hello Everyone,
i thought of somthing that i wanted to discuss.
what i write down, is in addition to phoebe, as far as i red the dev blogs. dev blog and forum update
This Idea consists of several points that cant be split easyly. Because their impact on gameplay is interconnected with each other. I will explain this on the end of the post.
GL&HF!

CHANGES/ADDITIONS:

1. DO NOT let capitals use Gates.

2. DO NOT restrict JumpRange.
2.1 do only restrict jumping, when JumpFatigue or JumpCooldown after that jump would be above a certain maximum.
2.1.1 this maximum could then be increased by skills. and the effect of this will increase the maximum jump range ;)
2.1.2 do not fear: the game client could calculate your current maximum jump range for you and display it somewhere.

3. JumpFatigue. make the increment to it something like fatigue=oldfatigue+1+LYTraveled*(LYTraveled / 5LY)^3.
3.1 it is balanced that JumpFatigue will increase normaly on 5LY. 8 times more when jumping 10LY. 1/8 when jumping 2.5LY. 3.1.1 oh yeah, and 64 times when jumping 20LY (+=1281 minutes equals 21.3h). so who does that?
3.1.2if increasing the exponent from 3 to 4 or even more, this effect will be even more. i believe there is an optimal somewhere between 3 and 4, that will balance travel just fine.
3.2 of course, when industrials have still the 90% bonus to JuFa they can jump farther without the huge penalty or take a break or only jump once per day or make more little hops.
3.3 adjust the JumpCooldown to fit this change. it could be like: cooldown=1+previousFatigue*(LYTraveled / 5LY)^0.8

4. system-wide cyno inhibitors (already implemented as part of sov mechanics as far as i know)
4.0 covert not effected.

4.1 as deployable structures
4.1.1 destructible
4.1.2 warpable(like a Beacon)
4.1.3 cant be anchored on grid with a pos

optional: 4.2. system-wide cyno inhibitors as a Module
4.2.1 fitting: uses Highslot, uses lots of PG and CPU (battleship level), uses lots of cap, purpose: gimp the fit but does not gimp the tank.
4.2.2 no movement-possible when activated
4.2.3 there will be a beacon in space (like when lighting a cyno)
4.2.4 cant receive remote repair

5. range-based cyno inhibitors as a Module
5.1 this one will function like the deployable structure that is already in the game.
5.1.1 maybe the range will be affected by skills/ship/etc
5.2 you will still be able to move around.
5.3 no beacon
5.4 when some pilot wants to light a cyno in range of this effect, there will be a message in the log that tells you the name/ship/etc of the reason why you couldnt light it.
5.5 fitting: uses Highslot, uses lots of PG and CPU (battleship level, but less than the system-wide ofc)
5.5.1 comparison to system-wide: a bit like the differences between scram vs. disruptor.

6. Rigs can be introduced later to make it more interesting, when we see how these changes impact the gameplay.
6.1 These Rigs could be like this: [less Fatigue, higher cooldown] , [less cooldown, higher fatigue]

7 a new skill "jump fatigue recovery" might ease the pain.

EDITed formula for more clarity

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Ben Ishikela
#2 - 2014-10-12 15:21:13 UTC
REASONS and EFFECTS:
in short:
- any big battle is escalated by capitals if anything bigger than battlecruisers are deployed. or it is titan bridged. is there any way to defend against this? yes, bat-phone or cyno-inhibitors. (also: not fighting in large battles at all, and that we do not want (but this happens in lowsec a lot) or structure bashing with stealth-bombers (which takes time and does not generate enough risk)).
- - So, with this new BS-Cyno-Inhibitor-module, Players can deploy Battleships more easily without this huge risk that was nearly certain.
- - A Capital-Escalation is still possible by destroying the CI-BattleShip and lighting them cynos.
- want to hot-drop a venture on the other side of the galaxy? never stop a rolling stone, i say. that would be still possible, but can only be done once a week.
- want to take part in a huge battle that happens only once a year? you can do that but at the cost of weaker defence. the farther the event is away, the more fatigue your fleet gathered. So defending your own systems might prove difficult in the following days.
- want to preserve your JF (jumpfreighter and jumpfatigue both in this case) "freshness"? make lots of little jumps. its like gate jumping. with the risk and content/pvp-creating effects of lighting cynos and appearing on dscan in several systems along the way.
- want to pipe-bomb? still possible.
- want to defend against pipe-bombing? now possible by deploying these cyno-inhibitors along your route in advance.
- - is there a way to attack the defence against pipe-bombing? yes ofc. destruction of these structures or the battleship that is securing the next gate.
- want to send reinforcements in, but at the risk of the other party, deploying something? deactivate the inhibitors for a short time. Another meta-strategy just appeared. If your opponent is not aware of the battlefield or no inhibitors of his own = his fault. and so on....
- need to defend a system from an attack that uses inhibitors? have your capitals ready in advance. the capitals that are already in the system are much more valuable than that cant come in.
- - so defending against superior forces is much more likely to end well for you. that might enable you again to have your own part of space.
- So why is 4.2 (the system-wide inhibitor module) optional? it is hard to balance.
- why not let capitals use gates? because they can then jump into a neighboring system and then use the gate. This would render the whole idea of the inhibitors useless. Capitals can still make lots of tiny jumps without receiving that much of a cooldown.
- are you about to jump into a fight in a carrier and wonder when you might get out again? depends on your fatigue and LYT. Can be Calculated in advance

Let me know what you think.

See you out there

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Ben Ishikela
#3 - 2014-10-15 14:59:07 UTC
shameless bump.
so is there noone answering because i have put a formula into the topic?

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#4 - 2014-10-15 17:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: NearNihil
To me, this suggestion is about as clear as a brick. No limit on jump range, but it's limited by skills? So there is a limit, then?

In short, how do you suggest the jump changes to be implemented? There's a bunch of words there, but I just can't see where it's coming from or what the destination is. I'm not a programmer or mathematician so I don't understand nor can I give feedback on formulae as stated in your posts.
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-10-15 17:50:35 UTC
Quote:
fatigue+=, math.pow, (+=1281 minutes equals 21.3h)


You're killing me with this math, dude.

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#6 - 2014-10-15 18:17:53 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
shameless bump.
so is there noone answering because i have put a formula into the topic?


You put a formula into the body-copy as well, just provided no solution for it.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-10-15 18:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolf Incaelum
Ben Ishikela wrote:
shameless bump.
so is there noone answering because i have put a formula into the topic?


The presence of a formula isn't causing people not to respond. Alexis Nightwish has a thread open on the same topic that also has a few formulas in the proposal. The discussion over there developed rather nicely. I'd wager that a lack of clarity in your proposal is the main reason that you aren't getting many responses. It's difficult to respond to an idea if it isn't clear.

Another reason might be that your formula kinda...sucks (sorry, but it does). You have a few places where your formula states something like "fatigue+=1". So...are you saying "fatigue plus 1" or are you saying "fatigue equals 1"? Then, you have that funny little "math.pow" thing in a couple of places. It's obvious that "pow" is your abbreviation for "power". Note that when typing, exponents are generally shown with the ^ (shift+6) symbol. For example, the 4th power of 2 would be typed as 2^4. With your "math.pow" deal, it would be "math^(LY Traveled / 5LY etc. etc...)".

And you gotta get rid of the "math" part of the formula. You don't just say "what ever quantity*math.pow". Nobody knows what "math" means there. I hope you didn't put it there to indicate that we're supposed to figure out what the math is. It's YOUR formula. YOU tell us what the math is, WE plug in experimental numbers.

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
Ben Ishikela
#8 - 2014-10-16 01:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Ishikela
Sorry got a little confusing up there.

Thank you for this feedback. I am kind of new to telling people about my ideas.
i used the java-programming language to express my formula, but should have sticked to the old and well-known form.
the formula would look like this:
the increase in fatigue will be 1 + LY * (LY / 5) ^ 3
the cooldown will be 1 + previousFatigue * (LY/5) ^ 0.8
LY is the Traveled distance in Lightyears.

so for Java basics:
'+=' means that you add the right part to the left.
Math.pow(x,y) is pretty much the same as x^y. Math is a class. pow is a static function of this class. x and y are parameters of it.
I dont really know why i did that. it looks so much easier now with just ^.

should i edit my original post for more clearness or close/repost the whole topic in clear format?

EDIT: the restriction in maximum fatigue is totaly optional.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Ben Ishikela
#9 - 2014-10-16 17:51:42 UTC
Closed.
Jump Fatigue not good.
I found something better: Power Projection: A Brighter Future

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.