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Logistics Frigates

Author
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#21 - 2011-12-08 09:38:47 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Why do you want to repeat the problems of EAF's?

The only time a friggy version of a logi would be more useful than bringing an actual logi is those few places where only frig sized boats can go.

The niche is too small. All you wind up doing is making more EAFs.

Well that's the point. This would make frig sized gangs more viable, and certainly more so now with the addition of Tier 3 BCs which are essentially going to have problems against small vessels.

But how about you give them the ability to use medium reps (if cruiser t2s can use large, these should be able to use mediums), along with an extra range bonus. However, they should still require the Logistics skill, but not the Cruiser one.

And as far as the T3 frigates are concerned, it wouldn't be bad to have them at all, but this comes first (let's see how it plays out first).
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#22 - 2011-12-09 19:06:40 UTC
I would love to see logistics frigates. It might also be interesting if they came out with destroyer sized command ships.
They would certainly make wolfpacks much better. Logistics support would probably also be something of a stealth buff to AFs as well.

Seeing as cruiser logis use large repair modules, it would stand to reason frigate sized logis would use medium modules. That, combined with a range bonus, would likely alleviate any range problems. Other frigates can go out of range much more quickly, but their guns are shorter ranged, so, as long as everyone is ganging up on one target, they should be in the vicinity of each other.\


As for T3 Frigates. I admit the idea intrigues me as a small craft pilot, but everything about a frigate is fast, and that, unfortunately, includes the speed at which things can go wrong. I don't want skillpoints and huge sums of money riding on something that would drop quickly.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#23 - 2011-12-09 19:19:50 UTC
The only problem with this idea is that frigates don't naturally soak damage, they avoid it. If they are caught, they die quickly. RR or rep drones are enough to repair between battles already. It's a neat idea, but I don't see it having much actual use.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#24 - 2011-12-09 19:24:45 UTC
Is there any reason to believe that adding logistics to the field wouldn't change that depending on group composition?

It would be similar to how for solo and small group PvP you want a local tabk, but for larger groups, you buffer tank and call for logistical support. In this case, small group wolfpacks would still rely on kiting to stay alive, but larger swarms might drop speed mods for a plate and call for repairs if they are caught.
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#25 - 2011-12-09 19:29:33 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
The only problem with this idea is that frigates don't naturally soak damage, they avoid it. If they are caught, they die quickly. RR or rep drones are enough to repair between battles already. It's a neat idea, but I don't see it having much actual use.

Yes and no. Frigs sig and speed tank usually, with many having multiple thousand HP, AFs going easily above 15k if they buffer tank. If they don't get alphad, it should be possible that they can get repaired (is it that different with big ships?).
Xindi Kraid wrote:
As for T3 Frigates. I admit the idea intrigues me as a small craft pilot, but everything about a frigate is fast, and that, unfortunately, includes the speed at which things can go wrong. I don't want skillpoints and huge sums of money riding on something that would drop quickly.

I assume they would cost like T2 Cruisers, maybe a bit more, but still probably less than one third of what T3 Cruisers do. And I don't think they'd be dying any faster than other ships of the same cost. They'd probably end up having T2 Cruiser tank with frigate speed, agility and sig, that's something that will in fact be hard to kill. It's all hypothetical for now, nothing is yet set in stone.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#26 - 2011-12-09 22:20:54 UTC
Challenge for all the non-believers.

Get 3-4 buddies who knows how to handle a ship and fit them all out with AF's with a single small RR and AB for propulsion (DP when/if wanted and possible), have had great fun in 2-3 Vengeances (tackle/RR/secondary dps) with 2-3 Retris (dps/rr).
You'll be surprised just how hard a small cluster of spider AF's can be to crack .. fun and fast .. when it works you get a hard-on of Herculean proportions and when it fails it is violent (but cheap Smile).
Zircon Dasher
#27 - 2011-12-10 00:02:22 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Challenge for all the non-believers.

Get 3-4 buddies who knows how to handle a ship and fit them all out with AF's with a single small RR and AB for propulsion (DP when/if wanted and possible), have had great fun in 2-3 Vengeances (tackle/RR/secondary dps) with 2-3 Retris (dps/rr).
You'll be surprised just how hard a small cluster of spider AF's can be to crack .. fun and fast .. when it works you get a hard-on of Herculean proportions and when it fails it is violent (but cheap Smile).


SO your money is on AFs + Logi being one of the standard gang doctrines soon? Since they are so effective and all?

And it is a srs question not a sassy-pants comment.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2011-12-10 00:51:57 UTC
it would be wierd, they would have almost no survivabiity and probably be like EW frigs, too expensive and to easy to kill compared to cruiser counterparts
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#29 - 2011-12-10 08:13:57 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
SO your money is on AFs + Logi being one of the standard gang doctrines soon? Since they are so effective and all?

And it is a srs question not a sassy-pants comment.

Not at all, if riding with a logistic there are usually better options (ie. MOAR CANES!), also the only logi that can really keep pace is the Scimitar and it is very vulnerable to neuting/dampening. it was a general response to all the people saying that small RR are insufficient and that they need a bazillion km RR range to be viable.

As I said previously, one of the reasons I'd like a dedicated light logistics platform is that in cases where it is required (ie. gangs/fleets with larger boats) there are bound to be higher priority targets for the logistics pilots so the frigates are left to fend for themselves which leads to interceptors (and Covops) being the only ships that really see larger battles.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#30 - 2011-12-10 17:14:16 UTC
I'm not in favor of Logistic Frigates, but rather... Anti-Logistic Frigates. An Anti-Logistic Frigater would be a Tech 3 Frigate that can target a ship and turn on a module (whatever you want to call the module) that will prevent that ship from being repped.

A much needed counter to Logistics and adds complexity to the fleet flight.

It also makes frigate roles in fleet fights more viable again because you will need a counter to the Anti-Logistic frigates to take them out.... Destroyers and such.

In a large scale,the battle would be complex (hopefully)
simukz
#31 - 2011-12-10 18:38:34 UTC
as far as the hull goes i am voting for the miner frigs (Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas, and Burst)

I read 70% of the thread and i am not sure if it was mentioned... What?

But the biggest problem with frig class logi is # of locked targets and with 3 max locked targets it would be a pain to keep a 10 frig gang alive. in addition there is not enough time between the friendly getting primaried and you locking on it (small buffer tank).

I am sure we all (logies) been there where just did not lock it in time to save a fleet member... but:
having a frig logi with # of locked targets increased to lets 9 (+1 per logistics level) and and lock time close to instant lock. And if it can fit medium RR (like cruiser logi can fit large); one or two frig logi maybe even used in larger than just frig class ship fleets.
It could give that 1 sec hero rep cycle save fellow team8... Blink

<<< read before you respond >>>

Schnoo
The Schnoo
#32 - 2011-12-10 19:41:29 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
I'm not in favor of Logistic Frigates, but rather... Anti-Logistic Frigates. An Anti-Logistic Frigater would be a Tech 3 Frigate that can target a ship and turn on a module (whatever you want to call the module) that will prevent that ship from being repped.

A much needed counter to Logistics and adds complexity to the fleet flight.

It also makes frigate roles in fleet fights more viable again because you will need a counter to the Anti-Logistic frigates to take them out.... Destroyers and such.

In a large scale,the battle would be complex (hopefully)

Todays (buffed) Destroyers have a hard time dealing with T2 frigates, 1v1, what use would they have against a T3.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#33 - 2011-12-10 20:12:43 UTC
I like the idea of both logi and anti logi frigates. and if there addition would cause destroyers to become less usefull, lets create more of them as well. This Idea is one that could be a year or so off, since we dont see new ships all that often, but because of that we shouldnt limit the potential that they offer. I would hands down fly a logifrig, and have a blast with it.
Kittamaru
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-13 14:12:02 UTC
Bumping this back up for discussion:

Part of why I went with small reps was to keep with extremely low power consumption.

Their tank would primarily be their tiny sig radius and decent speed, which is amplified by the ability to perma run AB's while repping (due to small reps low power use and their bonuses).

Yes, this shorter range setup would require coordination and communication between pilots, which is part of the idea. I'm not looking to replace main logi's in large fleet battles :)
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#35 - 2011-12-13 18:41:58 UTC
Why would they need small modules for power reasons?
Give them a bonus that reduces cap use for remote armor reps/shield transporters.

Giving them medium reppers wouldn't replace regular logis in fleet battles since you need a larger repper to reasonably keep a BS sized target alive.
Kittamaru
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-13 19:41:53 UTC
Eh, true... hell, why not :)
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#37 - 2011-12-13 23:05:39 UTC
Would be nice if they were only able to fit 2-3 medium reps with a range of about 30-40 range or something

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#38 - 2011-12-13 23:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
I got ganked

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Mr Painless
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-12-14 11:09:08 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Finally, a use for the small DED shield/armor RR modules that are laying around ... oh, wait, they're still worse than the T2 ones.

I still like the idea of logi frigates. I don't know exactly how used they would be, but it does sound quite fun to fly.



Logi frigates are possibly the only chance for small/medium remote reppers ever being used for anything.

Small RR modules are completely useless as they are. Even mediums are hardly ever used. Add in the fact that really, their plex versions are only marginally (if at all) better than T2 variants. For comparison, small local reppers are roughly 2 times better in plex variants than T2. If plex remote reps were buffed to similar amount, maybe someone actually tries and makes some use of them. Otherwise, the only purpose they serve is for reprocessing.
Gevlin
Pirates of the Caribbean.
Phantom Horde
#40 - 2011-12-14 11:29:22 UTC
due to the limited HP of a frigate.
I think the standard repairing damage may not work well,
but giving extra temporary Shield or extra Amor Points that buff the frigate temporarly

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

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