These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Gevlon's Second Doozie

First post
Author
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-10-14 00:11:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


It's just the assigned goon propaganda troll.

You can't believe anything it says.

Thank you, drive thru.


So said the npc player who wasn't there.


So nothing mittins scripted for you fit here and you had to go on your own.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#62 - 2014-10-14 00:15:49 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Mostly I do NPSI, because,,,,

I don't want to be you.

No, you do it for the same reason people drive hybrid cars, carry froo froo purse dogs, or go "gluten free" without having a digestive disease.

So you can hold your nose in the air and try to fool yourself into thinking that you're any better than anyone else.

But the mere fact that you try so hard is a giant beacon of your inferiority, that everyone around you can see.

Oh, I planned going to null, but, like I said, I won't be sheep. That is all any of you are.

I will not be you.

Yeah I see that their point was well made. No doubt at this point.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#63 - 2014-10-14 00:24:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

See, this isn't true. If it was, you wouldn't have been complaining of a lack of content for the past 6 months. Sov would be abuzz with activity and no one would have time to complain about the stagnation because it wouldn't exist. Sure, you aren't literally blue to 95% of null, you're just refusing to get into a serious engagement with 95% of null.

And, btw, the same is true of PL and the rest. There's a reason they deployed to the hero/provi "game preserve".

The last time we tried an all out brawl we broke the servers and winded up slugging it out for over 20 hours in which about the only thing that worked was titan DDs. Nobody had fun.

So you each blue'd as many people as you could, and the servers couldn't take it. Hell, during B-R there were probably thousands of subcaps engaged in the surrounding systems, outside of the main engagement. And now you refuse to fight.

Sounds to me like my earlier point rings true:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~, these two points are likewise true:

Riddle me this: If 95% of null is in a coalition in the old system and 95% of null is in a coalition in the new system, who, exactly are you going to shoot? If you aren't going to shoot your neighbor and you aren't going to shoot the renters, who *exactly* are you going to shoot?


Sure, you aren't literally blue to 95% of null, you're just refusing to get into a serious engagement with 95% of null.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#64 - 2014-10-14 00:24:49 UTC
Who's this Gevlon dude everyone's talking about?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-10-14 00:39:33 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Sure, you aren't literally blue to 95% of null, you're just refusing to get into a serious engagement with 95% of null.


Next will be, 'they are not blue', which technically they aren't, they just have treaty's.

So now that is out of the way.

CFC, N3, PL are the reason null is one big care bear zone. They are the reason for the nerfs, yet they are the ones that cry hardest about the nerfs.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#66 - 2014-10-14 00:42:18 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~

That's odd, I thought vince draken's boys were deploying to kill us, what with the patch coming up

Guess someone forgot to tell them not to fight us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#67 - 2014-10-14 00:46:53 UTC
I'm actually legitimately curious how anyone would seek to reconcile the continued existence of the coalitions (CFC, N3) with a non-stagnant sov system.

TiDi and lag won't go away. Cram 4k or more people into a server, the server will **** bricks and you've got a 20 hr fight. Sure you upgrade the server. Now it ***** bricks at 5k. W/e, still not fun for anyone. It just seems to me that a system that can support two blocs that together with their renters includes 95% (or w/e) of the population of null will be inherently stagnant.

And yet there are individuals in this very thread that seem to want a new sov system while keeping the "old" CFC/N3. How do you see that working?
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#68 - 2014-10-14 00:49:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~

That's odd, I thought vince draken's boys were deploying to kill us, what with the patch coming up

Guess someone forgot to tell them not to fight us

One can hope that with the upcoming patch the larger coalitions won't be able to hold nearly as much space and still remain a cohesive unit. A fool's hope perhaps, but still...
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-10-14 00:55:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~

That's odd, I thought vince draken's boys were deploying to kill us, what with the patch coming up

Guess someone forgot to tell them not to fight us


So you've got a possible fight. Big deal. You've got so much isk there's probably a ship replacement program for titans. When was the last time you actually had some skin in the game when it came to a battle?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2014-10-14 01:09:33 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~

That's odd, I thought vince draken's boys were deploying to kill us, what with the patch coming up

Guess someone forgot to tell them not to fight us


So you've got a possible fight. Big deal. You've got so much isk there's probably a ship replacement program for titans. When was the last time you actually had some skin in the game when it came to a battle?


All of my ship costs come out of my own pocket.

The problem here is that the people who complain about organisations like the CFC have little to no idea what is going on. EG for example have been getting deployed to defend our space all summer. Just because there isnt any mass cullings of titans does not mean we are not at war.
Foxstar Damaskeenus
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#71 - 2014-10-14 01:27:11 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Gevlon's analysis is basically correct.

You just have to note how all the coalitions instead of fighting their equals are piing onto the last independent small guys on Provi. PL dropped what, 50 supers and a titan on a single rep carrier worth 1bil last night? Something like that? Such content, much elite, as they say.

Anyhow, to answer your question, no I will not unsub because of the nerf.

Anything that prevents big guys from interfering all over eve is a good thing in my book. nerfs dont go far enough in my opinion.


this

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath

Curious Onlooker
LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO
#72 - 2014-10-14 02:16:52 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
The effect is that the leading players of the game, out of personal interest, are trying to turn Eve into a theme park type game similar to wow, where the dungeon instances are run by the player leaders. This may result in growth for Eve, but will damage Eve's uniqueness and ultimately harm Eve's ability to survive in the face of competition from other games looming on the horizon.

This affects all those who may have been convinced to be outraged by CCP's efforts to damage the major coalitions through travel and sov changes. So to the devs, I would like to say that Eve's survival ultimately depends on it remaining a niche game. Hopefully it will be a big and long-lived niche game. But frankly, in the world of MMOs, most games are like checkers, and most MMO players are kids who want to play checkers. Eve, however, is like chess, and while it has succeeded in cultivating a player base that has grown for the most part and has remained extremely loyal and long-lived, it is a player base that has come to and enjoys Eve because it is like chess. There is real intelligence involved in 'winning' and there is real consequence to losing. Some parts of Eve are annoying, but some forms of sport involve hard work and dedication. Have you talked to surfers who get up at 4 AM to surf in 50-degree shark infested waters? These are the players we want to find and retain. They are the kinds of players who will play the game for decades despite job changes, marriage, kids, all that.

So if you're an eve player, are you going to unsub because a nerf is on the way that will upset your game of checkers that Mittens built for you? Or are you willing to actually devote resources and strategy to hang on to a smaller piece of the pie that is going to be attacked by players who had no chance before?


FTFY, cut out the useless part of your post. Reading through the travel changes discussion thread, and talking to others ingame, it's pretty clear that the players who are genuinely upset are the ones who prefer Eve's current stale nullsec dynamic to the diverse and coarse state of null we had pre 2009, and those that are unable to rationalize how a few nerfs, built in with other unannounced future changes might actually make eve far better as a whole.

When reading through the rants and whines, you have to take two things into account; first, the source of the complaints. Are you on a social acceptance/karma forum like Reddit, where being part of the mob mentality is more important than critical thinking? Or reading from some heavily biased source like EveNews24? And second, those who are upset will almost always be more vocal than those who are satisfied or undecided on the changes.

The important thing to see here is that the devs have a clear plan, and for better or worse, it appears that they are determined to stick to it. Ultimately, beyond anything else in Eve, we need clear direction. We need development that isn't flip-floppy wish-washy, like with the nulli titan reimbursement by the flakey dev who ruled completely contrary to years of precedent. The players are very tired of not knowing where CCP stands on issues, and seeing CCP renege on their plans under minor player criticism (Yes, a 300 page thread, of which a substantial portion of the posts are simply questions, or other players rebutting complaints, is minor criticism).
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2014-10-14 05:31:34 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Most of his statistical data is misused, it's selectively presented in a light that makes it fit and support the thesis. And, just like a tabloid, he uses the claim of 'data' (misrepresented data, but DATA) backing him up to fool people into thinking it's all legitimate.
I never read his blog before and considered him a nutjob.

Do you have any proof that makes your words more believeable than his?


Off the top of my hat? He claimed that Powerpoint Coalition was an independent pirate group focused solely on disrupting ratters. While even the powerpoint itself outlined "sov targets and moons" as one of the major goals of their campaign.

He also mixes up terminology - a good instance would be chalking every case of a CFC present on a CFC killmail as an Awox, then claiming "rampant awoxing" among our ranks. Most of those "Awoxes" feature battleships hitting each other with smartbombs (especially when ratting - then they do rack up a significant amount of damage over time which winds up on the lossmail. The smartbomb damage in those cases especially is not a big factor due to hardener setups).

Finally, his method of "filtering" (de-whoring) killmails is very much flawed as it does not present the whole picture of a killmail. Many ships vital to a kill don't even register using that method (HICs on a super - it's pretty normal for a super to be tackled by hictors, but most of the time hictors don't fit guns. Their infinipoints, if used, register for 0.0% damage so by his logic - they don't register. Similar situation for logistics and ECM.)

(EDIT: I could go on - probably write my own blog about how Gevlon is wrong about a lot of things. But those are just a few things I came up with off the top of my amazing hat.)
Interesting read.

Still, he adresses some points in his latest entry that do make sense.
He talks about how people work ... and it fits. It does not have to have a lot of ground in reality,
but what he says makes an awfull lot of sense, in regards to human beings at least.

And when he talks about killmails that show people working together ...
... when they most probably should fight instead ...
... that's not really dismissable either, no?


And whatever people say about TMC.com (i read it sometimes) it is not dismissable either
that TMC profits from increased PLEX sales ... so whoever runs TMC profits with it.


And I really have no reason to believe that alliance leaders aren't trying to bank in one way or the other,
with some doing things that are more questionable than others. Humans simply are humans and
there's no conspiracy behind that.



It's dots ... and some of these dots make sense when fit together.


I'd like to know more, please?


There's historical evidence of alliance leaders being involved in RMT, that is true - however, it is not something that ends well and in case of being discovered by CCP can crush your alliance. In the case of TMC, I might be mistaken but their revenue comes from ads - it is the same in case of EN24. Of course, we won't hear a bad word about EN24 because it publishes his articles - at tends to be as grr goons as he is.

Most of what makes it to his blog is an the voice of an echo chamber filled with people that have little understanding of how a coalition works, or why was it formed in the first place. By forming your opinion solely on news pieces about big battles and Gevlon Goblin, it's very easy to get a grotesque image that's very far from reality.

People work with each other, yes - coalitions have been around since before the CFC years (BoB + GBC, RSF, DRF) and will be even after we're no more.

The CFC, within itself, is a massive diplomatic and logistical effort. Building a space empire, to my knowledge, is a bit harder than two space-cavemen meeting each other on a hill and declaring "You blue now." "You blue too. Let's go bash mammoth.". Members of a coalition are diverse in their culture and internal conflict is not uncommon. Situations can spiral out of control, leading to alliance purges, unforeseen failcascades and full blown wars - as the case has been with TEST and the HBC.

I'd agree that the political situation at this moment is very stale - however, jump changes are unlikely to change it and if they do it won't be for the better. Coalitions will become much more entrenched than they used to be.

Some points he makes have merit - like impacting on alliance morale by killing ratters and denying income. It's also nothing new, seeing as it's been done for years by the coalitions and smaller entities alike. However, while the base point is valid and makes sense (fear of loss is a very human thing indeed) the rest is just propaganda drivel that fails to even register things like "disposable income".

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#74 - 2014-10-14 06:54:19 UTC
I used to care about this stuff.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2014-10-14 08:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Balshem Rozenzweig
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
wall of text I


I used to think Gevlon provides at least some saving graces in his posts but now I don't. He switches between women rights fighter - grr goon - hero of the crowd - elitist and for me he's disgusting in every form he takes. If I were to say who he is I'd go with calling him an attention whore trying to get some money out of eve using provocation as a way to attract visitors to his blog. He got me baited into visiting the thing and I still feel the sour taste in my mouth.

I called him a witch hunter and he basically is one because he will use the standard gay rights or women rights argument to make a person in a video game a villain. At the same time ridiculing others, calling them retards and so on goes as totally cool in his book, since there's no mass media campaign to make their life better. All that because they can do what he cannot in an internet game Roll

It all points me to conclusion that he made a list of things crowd usually affiliates with and rotates them in order to catch a reader. The fact that most of the people that read him seem to do it because of the data, and not the pseudo-idealistic crap makes me feel better about world somehow. It, however, says a lot about the disrespect Gavlon in reality feels towards other people.

He puts a lot of work into his tables, I can give him that, but I'm not entirely ok playin an MMO where a dude like him is allowed to play and relatively harmless scamers banned. At least they were honest about lying all the time.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

Vyl Vit
#76 - 2014-10-14 08:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
"All these changes are turning EVE into a theme park!" Post.

*yawn* Huh? Wha? Oh.

What you have to do is try to comprehend the mentality of an "adult" trying to become "king" of a video game.
Then send for the jacket that ties in the back. To have a corporation cater to said person? Well....

...that's corporations for yah!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#77 - 2014-10-14 11:19:28 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
The continued existence of both N3 and the CFC is not compatible with the long term health of eve.

Seeing as you can't/won't fight the other side for ~reasons~

That's odd, I thought vince draken's boys were deploying to kill us, what with the patch coming up

Guess someone forgot to tell them not to fight us

One can hope that with the upcoming patch the larger coalitions won't be able to hold nearly as much space and still remain a cohesive unit. A fool's hope perhaps, but still...


Meh, the coalitions get practice at min/maxing life with the new jump rules then they get the new shiny DIY jump gates to allow projection between systems they choose and the only noticeable change in the end is that POS bashing becomes gate bashing
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#78 - 2014-10-14 12:20:38 UTC
So to be clear, you were impressed that Gevlon bought data available for free from zkillboard, analysed it badly and came to conclusions which the data can;t possibly represent, then you read on to his post about how video games shouldn't be fun and that CCP are removing fun from the game which he believes is a good thing, then you decided to post a wall of text about it here?

The answer to you're question is no, I will not be unsubbing because of the nerf since nothing will really change that much for null blobs, but CCP need to get to grips on what makes a game entertaining otherwise they will lose me to Elite Dangerous. Doing pretty much anything in eve is tedious and boring, not exactly what makes a game good.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Solecist Project
#79 - 2014-10-14 12:31:51 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
So to be clear, you were impressed that Gevlon bought data available for free from zkillboard, analysed it badly and came to conclusions which the data can;t possibly represent, then you read on to his post about how video games shouldn't be fun and that CCP are removing fun from the game which he believes is a good thing, then you decided to post a wall of text about it here?

The answer to you're question is no, I will not be unsubbing because of the nerf since nothing will really change that much for null blobs, but CCP need to get to grips on what makes a game entertaining otherwise they will lose me to Elite Dangerous. Doing pretty much anything in eve is tedious and boring, not exactly what makes a game good.

I do agree that if the game is "fun" only, then there's no point to it.

Sorry, but there are people who want a niche game that's not just entertaining,
because every stupid lesser game already provides that.

I prefer my games hard, challenging, annoying and cumbersome.

Pretty much this: A game that offers a wide range of feelings is better than one
that offers just one. So, basically, you're superficial.

So what exactly makes a game good? One that's fun ...
... or one that offers a huge variety of feelings?

Feel free to go. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Cebraio
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2014-10-14 12:33:34 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
So being Grr Goon as I am, it didn't take me long to stumble on Gevlon Goblin. Now unlike his many detractors, I do not find most of his blog posts crappy.

Sorry, I stopped reading there despite being very interested in the GrrGoons topic. You can't be serious.