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training for big ships is a waste of time?

Author
Shandra Manaya
Prision Break Inc.
#1 - 2014-10-09 10:07:49 UTC
I'm new to eve but one thing I noticed, if you take two frigates you can easy destroys a bs, which brings me a question, why train for large ships if small has a large advantage over them? even more in the case of ships that use missiles because whit just a few more m/s you already cancels more than 50% damage, if not more. i not surpise if a frigate alone can destroy one bs even if it takes time.as I am new to eve may be i having a wrong view of the matter ,and if someone can explain to me why to train for bigger ships I thank.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2014-10-09 10:11:38 UTC
Shandra Manaya wrote:
,and if someone can explain to me why to train for bigger ships I thank.

Because what you say is wrong. At least if both sides know what they are doing
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#3 - 2014-10-09 10:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
I would say that if you don't plan to fly those ships, than it's a waste of time.

Why bigger ships? Do you like them? Do you like PvP in them? Doing LvL 4 misions? Cap warfare?

I don't know what you like, I like frigates and battleships most. So I trained for them and I fly them, mostly Caldari and Amarr.
Lucy Oreless
Rise of Rephaim
#4 - 2014-10-09 10:14:30 UTC
well... If EVE was only you and your alt/friend, your statement would be true(ish).

There is a place for most ships, and bigger ships open up new venues.. This is one of those things that is REALLY good in EVE.. Small ships have a purpose just as the big ones..

 I did not have sexual relations to THAT woman....

Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-10-09 10:17:10 UTC
Bigger doesn't mean that it's better or worse - it means it has a different purpose.

E.g. if I want to neutralize the cap of a carrier then a bunch of neut frigs wont be able to do it - a few Bhaalgorns (pirate BS with bonus to energy neutralization) however can.
When I want to grind level 4 missions a frigate doesn't really have the firepower to do it.
There are many different situations where you would want to use a BS.

Oh, and some BS can absolutely kill frigs. E.g an Armageddon will tear most frigates a new one.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-10-09 10:20:50 UTC
If the BS was not designed to kill the frigates and the frigates were designed to kill the BS, it's pretty hard to fail at the task at that point.

On the other hand, if the frigates have no ewar and paper-thin tanks AND the battleship was specifically designed to take out frigates, it's going to be a slaughter fest.
Shandra Manaya
Prision Break Inc.
#7 - 2014-10-09 10:25:08 UTC
I would much rather use them but my fellow corp out on double and then destroy one or two BS's without much effort is why I got the doubt ,if it would be interesting to have a bs to come two frigate and knock me down I would feel upset if that happened to me, but maybe what I need is to play more to understand more of the game.thanks for the reply
Ditero Endashi
Protomonolithic
#8 - 2014-10-09 10:29:53 UTC
You need to look at what purpose you have in mind for the ship.

I have seen so many new players get into BC and BS as fast as they can without the skills to support the ship then cry when it gets blown up.

EVE has a good number of ships that can be fitted in an insane number of ways to suit playstyles and roles or just to mess with your head.

Nothing in EVE is invulnerable, even the toughest tanks can be broken.

Why fly a battleship?

Because if you have the skills and supports to fly it well then a battleship may be the one that you need to suit a certain activity in the game.
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-10-09 13:52:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Chinwe Rhei
Two frigates can't "easily" destroy a battleship, i can assure you. Normally two frigates wouldn't do enough damage to break through a battleship sized active tank.
What frigates can do is hold the battleship in space for the bigger guns to arrive, with the battleship's big guns not being able to hit them, unless it's a drone battleship in which case things may get a bit hairy for the frigate pilots.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#10 - 2014-10-09 14:01:03 UTC
What is in your fleet? Think Fleet not ship. A single battle ship is just asking for it. Blink

Empire, the next new world order.

Rems Issus
Associated Descendants of Eve
#11 - 2014-10-09 14:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rems Issus
Merovee wrote:
What is in your fleet? Think Fleet not ship. A single battle ship is just asking for it. Blink


Quote for truth.

A lot of players seem to be stuck in a 'single player' mindset where their own ship is selected for purely individualistic reasons. This is not the most optimal way to select the best ship for a job, however, in EVE; You have to look at three key things before heading out in any vessel.

1) What are the other people in my fleet flying?

2) What role can I play that would best complement the others in my fleet?

3) What is the risk/reward ratio for the activity at hand, and how much ISK-value of ship am I willing to risk for it?


For battleships, you never want to go solo- Apply the first of my three points. Additionally ask yourself questions like: Does your fleet have the appropriate logi for your battleship's tank type? Are any of your fleet mates running battleships? Battleships are useful tools in certain situations... But like most ships, will not excel unless used in a fleet properly prepared to field them. If you find yourself in a fleet consisting mostly of smaller ships, or if your fleet is too small to properly support a battleship, you may consider increasing your efficiency by selecting a smaller hull that is better suited to the job.

~*~{Posting on my main, come at me bro}~*~

Solecist Project
#12 - 2014-10-09 14:47:38 UTC
Until you orbit within 5000m ...
... and the big boobs of Light send you back where you belong ......

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-10-09 15:08:36 UTC
One thing is for sure, training for anything bigger than a battlecruiser as a new player is probably a waste of time.
The bigger the ship is, the bigger is the effect that skills and better modules have.
So, a T2 fit frigates is not that much better than a T1/meta fit frigate, especially if you count in ISK efficency.
A T2 battleship with proper support skills will easily mop the floor with any beginner battleship though and while properly skilled, fitted and flown battleships can easily farm ISK in lvl 4 missions, a beginner in a battleship will most likely lose his ship in a lvl 4 mission or will have to tank it so hard that he needs an hour or more per mission.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-09 15:25:15 UTC
Bigger is better.... everyone knows that. Stop feeling inadequate and "man-up" to a capital. P

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Nakito Kobara
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2014-10-09 15:30:13 UTC
Jace Sarice
#16 - 2014-10-09 15:34:38 UTC
Charons are hardly a waste of time.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-10-09 15:40:41 UTC
Shandra Manaya wrote:
I'm new to eve but one thing I noticed, if you take two frigates you can easy destroys a bs, which brings me a question, why train for large ships if small has a large advantage over them? even more in the case of ships that use missiles because whit just a few more m/s you already cancels more than 50% damage, if not more. i not surpise if a frigate alone can destroy one bs even if it takes time.as I am new to eve may be i having a wrong view of the matter ,and if someone can explain to me why to train for bigger ships I thank.


Frigates and battleships have different roles.

Frigate is tackle and support, cruiser is dps and support, battleship is tank and dps at expense of mobility.

Having said that, these roles are very fuzzy at best, and with proper fitting you can assign pretty much any role to any class of ship

Battleships certainly can be fitted to kill frigates. A scram and a web mean any frig that comes closer then 10 dies. A heavy neut means any frig within 30km will cap out and be disabled in seconds. A target painter and rapid missile lauchers will absolutely maul most frigates. And a micro jump drive means that you can simply escape from any long point with ease.

So yes battleships do have some disadvantage vs frigates, but certain platforms property fit are frigate murderers.

And higher-end money-making PvE stuff requires you have dps and tank of a battleship.

Well worth training.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-10-09 16:01:14 UTC
Why large ships? Paladin, that's why.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#19 - 2014-10-09 17:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
I´ve never regretted training Minmatar Battleship up to V and I am in the process of funneling SP into other racial BS skills up to level IV at least. For PVE Battleships are simply beast. Any solo ship can be countered by something a class below it and BS are simply no exception to this rule.

As a rule of thumb, ships perform the best against targets their own size unless specifically fitted to handle bigger or smaller targets. Exceptions exist, see the Stealth Bomber. Say you choose to fit tracking modules in order to hit smaller targets. This will take up space in your fitting that could have been used for tank. But since you are shooting at small low-DPS targets, your damage application is more important then your tank. So you sacrifice a few defensive stats for offensive ones against specific targets: specialization.
Lady Areola Fappington
#20 - 2014-10-09 17:38:57 UTC
Part of the problem for newbies is mentality coming from other MMOG style games. They're expecting to see a "gear progression", in that as you level up, you get progressively better gear that obsoletes any of the old stuff you get. Along those same lines, anyone who's "leveled up" can ROTFLstomp a lower level person, PVP wise.

They tend to see the frig->dessy->cruiser->BC->BS progression as Eve's idea of "levels", and expect the same behaviour out of the ships that they'd get from say, leveling a warrior to 50 and getting a pwnsauce lvl50 sword.

Eve isn't like that. Each ship type has roughly defined roles, and all of those roles are useful, in one way or another, to overall PVP.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

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