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Power Projection Changes Sekret Buff To WH Null Roamers
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Meat Missile
#1 - 2014-10-04 00:25:33 UTC
Those who live in w-space but roam nullsec in small gangs rejoice! Nullsec dwellers will investigate more wormholes for possible routes to Jita.


Risk averse carebears looking for total isolation in the ass-ends of space still need new Sentries and faction DDAs. Wormholes will be opened up by traders and industrialists to fulfill this need.

Complacent in their intel networks at choke points, checking local and warping out will be sluggish. "Surely I didn't spawn that wormhole I found, my bubbled gates give me time to warp".

Capital ships jumping gates for more anoms... I accidentally got caught in my own drag bubbles.

"Do we increase our jump fatigue just to bridge onto 5 ishtars?""What if our 100 man gang meant to save that carrier is needed 10 minutes from now a region over?"

Bueno, my friends.

Also, cloaky camping good pipes from nullsec to highsec will be profitable.

Bulk P4 available for sale for less than Jita sell. Delivered to your highsec system of choice. Email for a quote today.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#2 - 2014-10-04 12:01:23 UTC
It's hardly a secret if you keep talking about it...

Yaay!!!!
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#3 - 2014-10-04 15:13:59 UTC
*golf clap*

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2014-10-04 15:56:20 UTC
Meat Missile wrote:

"Do we increase our jump fatigue just to bridge onto 5 ishtars?""What if our 100 man gang meant to save that carrier is needed 10 minutes from now a region over?"


This is one of the things I really hate about the mechanism - it makes it very unpredictable with future events - which ultimately will likely breed another type of stagnation.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#5 - 2014-10-05 00:15:33 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Meat Missile wrote:

"Do we increase our jump fatigue just to bridge onto 5 ishtars?""What if our 100 man gang meant to save that carrier is needed 10 minutes from now a region over?"


This is one of the things I really hate about the mechanism - it makes it very unpredictable with future events - which ultimately will likely breed another type of stagnation.



They probably know that already, but if it brings in enough resubs or new subs to keep the game afloat for a little longer they probably don't care.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#6 - 2014-10-05 00:49:27 UTC
As I said on my blog, it's a bit of nostalgia design. Also, frankly, it is one man's desire to destroy the game at the behest of his chimaeric twin which lives inside him secretly, and is evil.

I honestly don't think that Fozzie cares whether his and the Devs decisions destroy the game. They won't neccessarily destroy the game by making a change which is needed, they will destroy the game by doing what they did in this subforum, which is being really, really, really, amazingly bad at PR and customer service.

Take the changes to C4 and C5 sleeper RR. it's an absolute joke of hypocrisy and an insult to our intelligence to say "oh because the Incursion RR got buffed Sleeper RR got buffed".

No it isn't. They aren't the same rats, they have different database entries which have different statistics for amount repped, and you chose to not only, allegedly, turn them on, but given them stupid levels of RR. That's fine, it's the prerogative of the game designers to make decisions and implement them.

It is, however, incumbent upon the Devs to clearly communicate these changes ahead of time, via a bulletin or otherwise, to the people it affects. I'm saying this from a PR/Customer Service viewpoint, because although Fozzie mayy not realise it, we pay for a service, and it is very much cheaper to keep a payying customer than gain a new one.

Ths holds just as true for nullsec scrublords and super/titan pilots playing an apex game of hotdrops and cyno deployments.

CCP really is shooting itself in the foot, fully automatic, with these 6 week nerf bat swings, solely because they don't respect their players. We wormholers know this from Lockageddon, and now it's nullsec's turn.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#7 - 2014-10-05 01:37:50 UTC
Silence with your common sense and logic before they purge and lock this thread too !!
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#8 - 2014-10-06 12:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
chris elliot wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Meat Missile wrote:

"Do we increase our jump fatigue just to bridge onto 5 ishtars?""What if our 100 man gang meant to save that carrier is needed 10 minutes from now a region over?"


This is one of the things I really hate about the mechanism - it makes it very unpredictable with future events - which ultimately will likely breed another type of stagnation.



They probably know that already, but if it brings in enough resubs or new subs to keep the game afloat for a little longer they probably don't care.



I think they are trying to stop the bleeding. This talk of new subs and re subs is pretty optimistic. I am seeing some folks I haven't seen in over a year log in, so there is some re subbing.

Big picture I think most folks don't like that they have no chance to 'win' AND add onto that the Baltec mantra of "there is nothing you can do to stop us".... CCP's just trying to turn that around. In my mind, if the math of HS players (you can throw in the minimal numbers from wh and LS) aren't enough to keep the game afloat, then CCP is pretty much coding for their right to survive in the market.

I think the Baltec dude is doing more to drive down subscriptions than the crappy play at times. Assuming the motive isn't to shut down the game, I can't see how how the goon propaganda machine hasn't told that ninny to keep his keyboard out of the forums. They used to be top notch at propaganda - now they seem to be letting a ham fisted dolt run wild. If anyone has insight... I'm confused and could use some help on this one.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#9 - 2014-10-06 17:39:15 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:

Take the changes to C4 and C5 sleeper RR. it's an absolute joke of hypocrisy and an insult to our intelligence to say "oh because the Incursion RR got buffed Sleeper RR got buffed".

No it isn't. They aren't the same rats, they have different database entries which have different statistics for amount repped, and you chose to not only, allegedly, turn them on, but given them stupid levels of RR. That's fine, it's the prerogative of the game designers to make decisions and implement them.


Just to nitpick, different values for RR on different database entries (rats) could very well, and mostly likely do, share the same code for *how* RR is applied in game. It would make no sense from a coding standpoint to have multiple RR code chunks that effectively do the same thing (apply reps to NPC entities). Instead you would write one function that applies the reps and feed it the rep amount thereby having one function to fix instead of multiple. In that respect, it is very very likely that unbreaking RR for one would unbreak it for all. Not putting 1 and 1 together and getting 2 and stating in the patch notes that "all NPC RR is now unbroken" was colossally stupid and shortsighted from a developer standpoint and should be highlighted as the communication failure it was.

Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-06 18:03:41 UTC
I also feel this is a buff to wspace. Much easier to set up in a small wh to make isk that can always get a decent connection to a trading hub. I also anticipate some group to set up a trading/courier service that uses wh to get to deep null.

More people in wspace is always good
WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-10-09 11:48:24 UTC
Meat Missile wrote:
Those who live in w-space but roam nullsec in small gangs rejoice! Nullsec dwellers will investigate more wormholes for possible routes to Jita.


I live in null and i always investigate wormholes. Your theory sounds good but for to be hunted there must be hunters in the first place and wspace is emptier than the deepest null pocket. That or the dwellers are so scared of unwanted visits interrupting their farming because let's be honest, how many active pvp corps/alliances are out there? The only guys i see in null roaming are ssc.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#12 - 2014-10-09 13:49:53 UTC
I gave up. Your ISBoxers dock too fast. And the average null bear is even quicker at docking.

4 of us enter a system of 20 guys and they all run to station and wait us out. Our best hope is to get a gank on someone careless (that's a gank, it isn't pvp). It's been a long time since anyone brought ships out of docking range. Your comment is hypocritcal at best.

Give me an outpost size can opener and I'll become more interested. (Pro hint: sitting on the undock in your archon does not count as undocking for pvp)

Provi is the exception. It's funny that the one group that most of null dumps on as amatures is the one group that will always form up and protect/defend their space. Perhaps the Elite null mega corps forgot to send their 'elite docking techniques' and 'how to wait them out in station' survival brochures to the providence region. If you have trouble finding Provi.... it's the one with actual activity taking place on the map (that would be orange dots under the 'pilots in space' tab)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#13 - 2014-10-09 14:22:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Serendipity Lost wrote:

I think they are trying to stop the bleeding. This talk of new subs and re subs is pretty optimistic. I am seeing some folks I haven't seen in over a year log in, so there is some re subbing.


They could do a lot to improve/sustain subscription numbers by improving the new player experience - I've tried to get 3-4 IRL friends into the game but with little success - the main issues being:

-A couple of them were mercilessly ganked before they had enough experience to deal with it and just quit (one guy lost 3 retrievers in one day to suicide ganks despite moving systems). This isn't an easy one to fix and I'm definitely not a proponent of fully safe/noobie zones.

-Getting an overall feel for the scope of the gameworld and where they belong in it. (This could probably be addressed somewhat with an update map that showed things like trade hubs, faction zones, monuments, available agents, etc. in a better manner - the auto pilot lines in space also helped there a bit).

And like them or hate them things like "raids" and that type of gameplay (PVE), continuous story arcs, etc. pull a lot of players in and even incursions don't really represent that kind of gameplay very well. (For anyone who has played city of heroes the frostfire story arc is one example of the kind of thing I'm talking about).

I think one of the problems with nullsec is that it is too interconnected and too structured, anything outside of the "super highways" should be more fuzzy so that smaller empires can exist and fight with some ability to use the terrain to their advantage to stay more under the radar or fade into the night if attacked the whole jump fatigue thing is a horrible horrible approach to the problems of null.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-09 14:28:26 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
4 of us enter a system of 20 guys and they all run to station and wait us out.

It gets even more hilarious when you catch one of their ratting carriers.
I've had situations where it took us almost 30 minutes to kill a carrier with 5 people and the 20 other nullbears in system just watched from the safety of their station.
Had they brought in just a few T1 cruisers or maybe even just some tackle it would have turned the fight around instantly.
IIFraII
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-10-09 16:14:55 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
4 of us enter a system of 20 guys and they all run to station and wait us out.

It gets even more hilarious when you catch one of their ratting carriers.
I've had situations where it took us almost 30 minutes to kill a carrier with 5 people and the 20 other nullbears in system just watched from the safety of their station.
Had they brought in just a few T1 cruisers or maybe even just some tackle it would have turned the fight around instantly.


Dunno what kind of gang you had, but in my experience bears starting to warp random stuff on top of a tackled carrier is exactly what make a carnage of said bears possible, stuff gets hairy when they warp blobs of carriers instead.
That really makes the fight go **** up for us =)
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#16 - 2014-10-09 18:57:14 UTC
Meat Missile wrote:
Those who live in w-space but roam nullsec in small gangs rejoice! Nullsec dwellers will investigate more wormholes for possible routes to Jita.


Wasn´t it nice to hope while it lasted... Whiney nullbears win again:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=378426
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#17 - 2014-10-09 19:34:23 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
Meat Missile wrote:
Those who live in w-space but roam nullsec in small gangs rejoice! Nullsec dwellers will investigate more wormholes for possible routes to Jita.


Wasn´t it nice to hope while it lasted... Whiney nullbears win again:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=378426


Well the dream was there for a little while.

Back to reality...

Faking csm and their backdooring bs.

I'm not even mad at the jump freighter change, I'm fine with that.

The rest of it is completely moronic.

Yaay!!!!
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#18 - 2014-10-09 20:35:16 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We would like nullsec to transition to a new status quo over time in as orderly a manner as possible, and maintaining as much of its current population as possible (or increasing it, obviously), while still actually achieving the new status quo. We're of the opinion that if we push the 5LY range through now, we'll lose a lot of nullsec players while they try to reach a new equilibrium, and it's possible that it would significantly reduce the carrying capacity of nullsec overall, which is not an outcome we'd be happy with.


From the link above. Now swap "nullsec" with "wormhole" and phoebechanges with oceanus. These are two entirely different approaches.
Hooray for another 6 months of stagnation.
I better stay off the forums (and the entire game) for a while or I risk getting a ban for flaming.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#19 - 2014-10-10 01:04:39 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We would like nullsec to transition to a new status quo over time in as orderly a manner as possible, and maintaining as much of its current population as possible (or increasing it, obviously), while still actually achieving the new status quo. We're of the opinion that if we push the 5LY range through now, we'll lose a lot of nullsec players while they try to reach a new equilibrium, and it's possible that it would significantly reduce the carrying capacity of nullsec overall, which is not an outcome we'd be happy with.


From the link above. Now swap "nullsec" with "wormhole" and phoebechanges with oceanus. These are two entirely different approaches.
Hooray for another 6 months of stagnation.
I better stay off the forums (and the entire game) for a while or I risk getting a ban for flaming.


Its just weird. The dev's basically caved in.

What should have been a null shakeup basically just turned into ... sigh... Oh well.

That's why we live in wormhole space.

Yaay!!!!
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-10-10 01:32:06 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We would like nullsec to transition to a new status quo over time in as orderly a manner as possible, and maintaining as much of its current population as possible (or increasing it, obviously), while still actually achieving the new status quo. We're of the opinion that if we push the 5LY range through now, we'll lose a lot of nullsec players while they try to reach a new equilibrium, and it's possible that it would significantly reduce the carrying capacity of nullsec overall, which is not an outcome we'd be happy with.


From the link above. Now swap "nullsec" with "wormhole" and phoebechanges with oceanus. These are two entirely different approaches.
Hooray for another 6 months of stagnation.
I better stay off the forums (and the entire game) for a while or I risk getting a ban for flaming.


Its just weird. The dev's basically caved in.

What should have been a null shakeup basically just turned into ... sigh... Oh well.

That's why we live in wormhole space.


I'm starting to ask around if anyone's taking peeps. I don't wanna end up like some goon pet.
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