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Do I understand this correctly?
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Vernn
Winnguard
#21 - 2011-12-13 03:07:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Are -10 not allowed to trade in stations? Because if they can then your argument is weak. Any alt could bring them any ship they wanted in as great a supply as they wanted.
…which makes the logistics a bit more complicated and limits their choice in ships.


Well I would agree with the "a bit" part. :)

Thats one small bit however.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2011-12-13 03:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vernn wrote:
My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.
Why not?

If the person is stupid enough to sit in the same spot over and over again, making him the easiest target ever, why shouldn't someone be able to keep killing him there?

Quote:
I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.
So enforce the other penalties that this act generates — they're yours to enforce for a reason…
The reason he gets away with it is because you let him.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2011-12-13 03:10:49 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly.


No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic.

Follow me here.

I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence.

My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.

Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking.

I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.

I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint.


It's perfectly within the game mechanics, and, from what I'm seeing, the guy is not using an exploit.

My advice? Pod him. If you can't figure that out, I can't help you.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-12-13 03:11:27 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly.


No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic.

Follow me here.

I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence.

My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.

Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking.

I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.

I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint.


File a petition Lol

In the meantime move out to other aspects of game, or other system/region.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2011-12-13 03:12:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
If the person is stupid enough to sit in the same spot over and over again, making him the easiest target ever, why shouldn't someone be able to keep killing him there?


Bots.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vernn
Winnguard
#26 - 2011-12-13 03:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Vernn
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.
Why not?

If the person is stupid enough to sit in the same spot over and over again, making him the easiest target ever, why shouldn't someone be able to keep killing him there?

[quote]I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.
So enforce the other penalties that this act generates — they're yours to enforce for a reason…



Tippia, we are at the point where you may as well just come out and say what you want. You want all of the game to be 0.0 don't you?

I will never understand why the pirate types despise high sec so much.


It is HIGH SEC Tippia. If the game isn't going to treat HIGH SEC as a place of HIGH SECURITY then just make every system in the game 0.0 and the 15k people who live in 0.0 can have a grand old time and us other 15k can just quit the game. All you hardcore 0.0 players can just go nuts........for about 4 months before CCP goes bankrupt.

If you wanna play in 0.0 then I won't say a word to you about it. I don't want to though. I want to play in HIGH SECURITY.

HIGH SECURITY means nothing as of right now. That is my point.

Additionally I have no way to kill the guy. He sits in a station until someone starts mining. Sure I could sit around for hours waiting, but then when I kill him I get nothing. I have no way to inflict the damage on him he has inflicted on me. Why do you not see that? The suicide ganker is the one the game has given all the power to.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2011-12-13 03:14:43 UTC
"High Security" doesn't mean "safe" in EVE. Accept that and we'll continue the discussion.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2011-12-13 03:15:34 UTC
@ Vernon
now you stopped making any sense... so chill out.
Vernn
Winnguard
#29 - 2011-12-13 03:17:01 UTC
Andski wrote:
"High Security" doesn't mean "safe" in EVE. Accept that and we'll continue the discussion.



Well i'm gunna put on a police uniform and come hang out where you get gas, and when someone starts shooting at you and you come running at me asking me to help you I'm going to tell you "Just because I'm dressed like a cop doesn't mean I'm a cop."

HIGH SECURITY

Ok, I'll tell you what, I'll be happy if they name it "Semi Security."
Vernn
Winnguard
#30 - 2011-12-13 03:19:25 UTC
Its so sad. Eve could be such a great game. It really could, but stuff like this just ruins the whole thing and leaves a bad taste in the average players mouth.

Its griefing, everyone knows it. Its totally obvious, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it.

I guess I'll come back in another couple years when the number of people logging on is down to 20k, and maybe they will be ready to put some sanity into the game.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2011-12-13 03:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vernn wrote:
Tippia, we are at the point where you may as well just come out and say what you want. You want all of the game to be 0.0 don't you?
Nope.
Quote:
I will never understand why the pirate types despise high sec so much.
Well, aside from the hilariously out-of-whack risk-vs-reward… they don't. They like it when so many targets congregate in such a small area — makes them easier to find…
Quote:
It is HIGH SEC Tippia.
…and that's why the security there is higher than in low and nullsec. Highsec doesn't mean it's safe — it just means it's safer. More specifically, it means that there are mechanics in place that provides disincentives to indiscriminate attacks against all and sundry: highsec is simply an area where aggression comes at a cost. You can either pay with your ship or with ISK, but no matter what, you have to pay for it. Since humans are miserly bastards, this cost makes them reticent to just blow each other up for no good reason. We create the high security in highsec — not the game.

What you're missing is that you still are responsible for your own safety, because the game itself just ensures that the aforementioned price is paid. If someone is willing to pay it, it's up to you to take the precautions needed to make sure you survive the encounter (precautions, by the way, which you need to take before they decide to pay… i.e. you need to always take them).

Highsec is safer than it has ever been. If you cannot make use of that safety, then the problem is with you, not with the system.
Quote:
Its so sad. Eve could be such a great game.
Good news: it is! You just need to learn how it works and stop assuming things that aren't true (such as high sec meaning anything else than “being more secure than low/nullsec”).
Quote:
Its griefing, everyone knows it. Its totally obvious, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it.
Just one problem: it's not griefing — you're just (falsely) assuming that it is because you don't understand how the game works. And no, nothing will be done about it because there is nothing to do anything about.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-12-13 03:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Vernn wrote:
Its so sad. Eve could be such a great game. It really could, but stuff like this just ruins the whole thing and leaves a bad taste in the average players mouth.

Its griefing, everyone knows it. Its totally obvious, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it.

I guess I'll come back in another couple years when the number of people logging on is down to 20k, and maybe they will be ready to put some sanity into the game.


Well at the time i was low SP pilot new in game. I joined an corporation with "real life" "friends" and we have been war deced by "same country" mercenaries. We fought them, we inevitably lost every single combat. We did not raged, i actually had those guys on convo and we had quite good conversation. In the end we payed them to stop the war dec.
I am still in contact with those mercenaries, and i endorse their game-play. Sure it was painfull, but call for justice and more power for you just because your enemy is smarter and stronger is weak.

Fun part is i still didnt learned not engage something when i cannot win. At those times i undocked at 800mm semi-PvP / read PvE/ Maelstrom and engage and Astarte and some other ship. I didnt even drop the astarte to armor Cool

There are times you lose. But their game gives you meaning and CCP game gives you means to fight. Get some friends make an fleet kill the outlaw once he get on grid. You can shoot flashy targets Cool
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2011-12-13 03:25:13 UTC
Not only can they keep ganking but they can do it with alts so they have no real consequences. No revenge, no real combat, just being a turd over and over again for the "lulz." Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Magerawr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-13 03:26:42 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Its so sad. Eve could be such a great game. It really could, but stuff like this just ruins the whole thing and leaves a bad taste in the average players mouth.

Its griefing, everyone knows it. Its totally obvious, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it.

I guess I'll come back in another couple years when the number of people logging on is down to 20k, and maybe they will be ready to put some sanity into the game.


Eve is a great game. Everyone is terribly sad that you can't see it. You know what could have happened instead of dying repeatedly? Use tactics to move locations. Adapt to the situation and learn how to not get into the situation again.

Yes, those people were being dicks, but those dicks have widely publicized this event, making ice mining a terribly lucrative career but also a very dangerous one. What you're doing is ignoring all of that and complaining on the forums because a play-made storyline that you didn't understand hit you smack in the face.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#35 - 2011-12-13 03:29:22 UTC
Oh dear god.


High security space is perfectly safe if you know how to be safe. IE, no afk/auto playing, no sleeping at the wheel, moving when someone is hunting you (the one you seem to miss).

Since you (from the wording of the OP) haven't moved to a new system, the ganker is not griefing. No matter how many times he kills you in that system. It is your own damn fault for not moving over. Now, if he followed you to another system and continued, then you would have a case for a petition, and CCP would likely give the player a warning (or whatever it is they do).

Also, since he is an outlaw, he can be shot and killed (along with podded) by any player who happens across him. Have you tried setting up a cruiser and waiting for him to warp back in?

Concord is not the police. They are the jury... with guns...
They provide punishment. not protection.


The faction police can, and do kill outlaws. However, the same tactics that make freighters safer from ganks (instawarp BMs) also make -10s safer from the faction police.
M5 Tuttle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2011-12-13 03:29:56 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly.


No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic.

Follow me here.

I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence.

My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.

Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking.

I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.

I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint.


you understand that the fact that they are in high sec with -10 sec status means that you and anyone else can attack them without getting concorded, right? how is that not enough for you?
Vernn
Winnguard
#37 - 2011-12-13 03:30:07 UTC
This apparently is a pointless discussion. This is a game, its supposed to be fun. I don't consider someone attacking me repeatedly with no consequence to them to be fun.

Clearly there are greener pastures for me elsewhere.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2011-12-13 03:32:01 UTC
Vernn wrote:
This apparently is a pointless discussion. This is a game, its supposed to be fun. I don't consider someone attacking me repeatedly with no consequence to them to be fun.

Clearly there are greener pastures for me elsewhere.


Maybe there are. EVE is not for everyone. Altho 80 percent of EVE population living in high-sec kind of gives away the fact that it is indeed high security.

You just had a bad luck, bad day and bitter experience.
Vernn
Winnguard
#39 - 2011-12-13 03:32:13 UTC
M5 Tuttle wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly.


No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic.

Follow me here.

I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence.

My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.

Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking.

I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.

I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint.


you understand that the fact that they are in high sec with -10 sec status means that you and anyone else can attack them without getting concorded, right? how is that not enough for you?



1) I can't attack them when they are sitting in a station.

2) Why would I attack them if they are flying a kestrel? The bullets I would shoot could potentially be worth more than their ship. They are griefers. They will not risk anything real. Thats why they do what they do. They are taking advantage of the games mechanics to inflict harm to others. If they had to pay a real price for what they were doing, they wouldn't do it.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#40 - 2011-12-13 03:32:26 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Its so sad. Eve could be such a great game. It really could, but stuff like this just ruins the whole thing and leaves a bad taste in the average players mouth.

Its griefing, everyone knows it. Its totally obvious, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it.

I guess I'll come back in another couple years when the number of people logging on is down to 20k, and maybe they will be ready to put some sanity into the game.


You're getting a little melodramatic but I'll agree with you to a point.

There should be consequences for those who are the 'worst of the worst' and afaik there is no gameplay/mechanics difference whatsoever between someone whose sec status is -5.1 and someone whose sec status is -10.0. The only difference is in the ease of grinding the standing back up should they choose to return to 'respectable' company, though fwiu the grind from -10 to -5 is the easy part.