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Jump changes and jammers

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Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-07 15:15:29 UTC
So with all the changes coming and the ability for capitals to use gates how is that going to impact systems that are cyno jammed now. Are players going to start assaulting these systems with dreads. It certainly does open it up for more conflict in that sense now that it will be possible for caps to get into these systems.

What your guys opinion on how the changes will effect cyno jammed systems?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-10-07 15:18:41 UTC
ShockedDid i trip and fall into the nullbear tears thread!? But that's in another subforum!?



i should stop drinkin...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3 - 2014-10-07 15:19:42 UTC
My opinion: There will a lot more tears than available buckets to contain them.





☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4 - 2014-10-07 15:25:39 UTC
Daoden wrote:


What your guys opinion on how the changes will effect cyno jammed systems?


It will open them up to *gasp* conflict.

PVP. You know, the reason you null elitists claim to be the superior players. I'd think you'd be happy with this change. No more hiding behind a jammer = best change ever.

Mr Epeen Cool
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2014-10-07 15:26:45 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
My opinion: There will a lot more tears than available buckets to contain them.

Why contain them? Let them flow on the systems and regions and watch how they freeze in the shape of new ice anomalies?

Bitter Tears Icicle: Rich in Heavy Water and Ozone.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-10-07 15:41:23 UTC
Daoden wrote:
So with all the changes coming and the ability for capitals to use gates how is that going to impact systems that are cyno jammed now. Are players going to start assaulting these systems with dreads. It certainly does open it up for more conflict in that sense now that it will be possible for caps to get into these systems.

What your guys opinion on how the changes will effect cyno jammed systems?


Some systems will become choke-points that will make other areas extremely safe.

There won't be easy ways to bypass those choke point systems - they'll have to be crashed via gates and gate-camps from hell using caps and supercaps at them... It'll get ugly.

In theory such things might seem good but if you can have a single point you *KNOW* huge fleets are coming in at, camping that spot will make cracking those systems almost impossible and gates do "delay use" when too many requests come in at once.

The one question I had about this side dealt with the old, original, idea behind black ops - to use them to get into such systems, bring in a healthy sized group of covert ships and knock out strategic holdings like the system cyno jammers.

Sadly I still don't see that as possible in such systems due to how long it takes to knock them down -- meaning blops will still be for other styles of "toy use" except with fatigue, they won't be anywhere near as functional - they'll be mothballed for the most part.

CCP did say they were looking at other mechanics. Hopefully they can find a way to address what these changes will do to black ops groups in some fashion.

IMO that doesn't have to be using them the same way they are as long as they have valuable usage in the game -- these changes remove *ALL* value-add usage from them for anything they've been used for in the past.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#7 - 2014-10-07 16:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Doc Fury wrote:
To all the goons and CFC still crying over the proposed power projection changes:
CCP is not trying to ruin the game, they are trying to ruin your game.



This is the the most ignorant comment among all of them regarding the changes. If this is this logic pool of those in bliss, then we should all be crying as it shows a complete lack of understanding, clouded by misguided vitriol.

It is not our game, this is CCPs game, we are just good at analyzing the rules and working with them to our benefit. The same will be true after the changes. We have the skill, money, communication and cooperation to play any mechanic handed to us. Just like we did with the terrible idea that was Dominion. Who the hell likes grinding structures. We sure as hell don't but that was the game CCP handed us, and we made it work, just like we will make this work. While others are certainly in a panic, we are already developing new strategies to be in place for the change.

This is not just a power-projection nerf, it is a logistical one. And the idea that the logistical nerf will upset and cripple only us, while somehow magically generating players willing (and more importantly able) to take risk in null, out of thin air, is short-sighted.

The tears are not for us, they are for everyone, you just can't see it because you do not play the game to it's full potential. The sadness comes from an opportunity for a more interesting solution squandered. They went to "reduce modifier X" as a solve, that lack of creativity should sadden everyone.

With that being said, I actually do look forward to effects of the nerf, though I am sad that it may reduce the potential of the awesome fights we had this weekend with BL. Without the ability to move as quickly as we did, we would have never fought each other like we did. |

Content lost.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-10-07 16:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Daoden
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
To all the goons and CFC still crying over the proposed power projection changes:
CCP is not trying to ruin the game, they are trying to ruin your game.



This is the the most ignorant comment among all of them regarding the changes. If this is this logic pool of those in bliss, then we should all be crying as it shows a complete lack of understanding, clouded by misguided vitriol.

It is not our game, this is CCPs game, we are just good at analyzing the rules and working with them to our benefit. The same will be true after the changes. We have the skill, money, communication and cooperation to play any mechanic handed to us. Just like we did with the terrible idea that was Dominion. Who the hell likes grinding structures. We sure as hell don't but that was the game CCP handed us, and we made it work, just like we will make this work. While others are certainly in a panic, we are already developing new strategies to be in place for the change.

This is not just a power-projection nerf, it is a logistical one. And the idea that the logistical nerf will upset and cripple only us, while somehow magically generating players willing (and more importantly able) to take risk in null, out of thin air, is short-sighted.

The tears are not for us, they are for everyone, you just can't see it because you do not play the game to it's full potential. The sadness comes from an opportunity for a more interesting solution squandered. They went to "reduce modifier X" as a solve, that lack of creativity should sadden everyone.

With that being said, I actually do look forward to effects of the nerf, though I am sad that it may reduce the potential of the awesome fights we had this weekend with BL. Without the ability to move as quickly as we did, we would have never fought each other like we did. |

Content lost.


Do you think it might bring more fights to border systems that are currently cyno jammed though? Do you think that there may be more active areas where people amass ships so that rather than jumping all that distance they can either use a ceptor or JC to reach the battlefield quickly and switch to their carrier/dread?

edit:typos
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-10-07 16:16:25 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Some systems will become choke-points that will make other areas extremely safe.


I don't get this. Capitals will still be able to jump. There just won't be any chain jumping. So if there's a choke point what's the problem with slipping an interceptor with a cyno and circumventing the entire camp?
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-07 16:24:33 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
Mocam wrote:
Some systems will become choke-points that will make other areas extremely safe.


I don't get this. Capitals will still be able to jump. There just won't be any chain jumping. So if there's a choke point what's the problem with slipping an interceptor with a cyno and circumventing the entire camp?


Cyno jammed systems, and with the reduction in jump range alliances can place these cyno jammers in fewer places to "blockade" cyno jumping ships and make a virtual battlefront so to speak where they will have to be attacked in order for the aggressor to continue their attack on their SOV. this is more along the lines of attacking someone not just trying to move around cyno jammers.
Vyl Vit
#11 - 2014-10-07 16:32:49 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
My opinion: There will a lot more tears than available buckets to contain them.
I have this blueprint (original) for mega-buckets.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#12 - 2014-10-07 16:35:26 UTC
You can jam more than 1 system and if jam a cluster out then either a cap fleet has to use the gate or a large fleet has to come in and knock the hammers out, either way if your if your intel network misses those then your group is fail

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-10-07 16:41:23 UTC
Daoden wrote:
Cyno jammed systems, and with the reduction in jump range alliances can place these cyno jammers in fewer places to "blockade" cyno jumping ships and make a virtual battlefront so to speak where they will have to be attacked in order for the aggressor to continue their attack on their SOV. this is more along the lines of attacking someone not just trying to move around cyno jammers.


I see. But is it practical to cyno jam so many systems that it's impossible to move around them? If it is then there really needs to be some changes to the geographical layout of the map.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#14 - 2014-10-07 19:25:08 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Daoden wrote:
So with all the changes coming and the ability for capitals to use gates how is that going to impact systems that are cyno jammed now. Are players going to start assaulting these systems with dreads. It certainly does open it up for more conflict in that sense now that it will be possible for caps to get into these systems.

What your guys opinion on how the changes will effect cyno jammed systems?


Some systems will become choke-points that will make other areas extremely safe.

There won't be easy ways to bypass those choke point systems - they'll have to be crashed via gates and gate-camps from hell using caps and supercaps at them... It'll get ugly.

In theory such things might seem good but if you can have a single point you *KNOW* huge fleets are coming in at, camping that spot will make cracking those systems almost impossible and gates do "delay use" when too many requests come in at once.

The one question I had about this side dealt with the old, original, idea behind black ops - to use them to get into such systems, bring in a healthy sized group of covert ships and knock out strategic holdings like the system cyno jammers.

Sadly I still don't see that as possible in such systems due to how long it takes to knock them down -- meaning blops will still be for other styles of "toy use" except with fatigue, they won't be anywhere near as functional - they'll be mothballed for the most part.

CCP did say they were looking at other mechanics. Hopefully they can find a way to address what these changes will do to black ops groups in some fashion.

IMO that doesn't have to be using them the same way they are as long as they have valuable usage in the game -- these changes remove *ALL* value-add usage from them for anything they've been used for in the past.


There are ways around gate camps, but I think you are mostly correct. CCP is doing this first, because they want real solid numbers on what needs to be changed. For example, they make this change, and quickly see that the black ops and covert fleets are too weak to deal with breaking up blockades, then they can do tweeking to coverts.

Or they see a group like goons use caches or other means to still project power, then ccp can make changes to that.

Or someone figures out something we all missed, that too can be tweeked.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2014-10-07 19:27:35 UTC
As there is already a thread on the same topic, this one gets a lock.

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