Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have been pushing to improve reward outside of high sec for years, putting level 5s into high sec does not help matters.

All three require the pilot to be an idiot.

Improving income outside of high sec is not to try to drag out the spineless mission running bears. Its to give people like me a reason to earn my isk in null rather than high sec.

Sorry, my response was less aimed towards you and more towards the other people I read on the first page. I am just trying to help clear up false arguments.


But yes. Islands should have enhanced liquidity to them.

High-sec L5 missions (0.5) would probably yield 20k-ish LP and maybe 50% more ISK than your typical L4. L5s typically take a lot longer to run than your average L4, so the ISK/hour ratio may not be that much greater than most L4s. This isn't an argument one way or the other - merely an observation.

The point is that the people that die by afk travelling in empire don't fly out to the islands with her BS(that is not really a bad thing, because the same people are also mostly semi afk on grid in our fleets as well). I fly Island Incursions since over a year with the same Paladin I use to FC in High sec as well and I never had issues, since low sec isn't a big problem if you have a scout, mwd, mjd and cloak.

I never used the blockade runners for myself(outside of some quick ammo, fuel or module trips), since my prowler last year couldn't even move a cruiser. Her use for stuff like this is actually fairly limited compared to proper fitted tier 1 haulers(that can move a BC + fitting) or a warp speed DST(that can move 1 BS, 1 Cruiser and the fitting at 8 AU/s).



Well it actually was last week, since Incs died every day by the conflict between ISN and TVP. Then again that does only lead to slightly more people on the Islands, people that like Island Incs follow the channels and channels can only move if you have a lot of time on your hand to run the logistics and FC for hours each day(helix is still fully burned out from the last 3 weeks doing Islands and didn't do a single fleet since days). I did most of the logistics for Island Incs last year for IIC and TDF. The OIC channel was actually created for Island Incursions on a Island and only later I did give in to providing fleets in Empire to.

You will always have the people that will not leave high sec(even if others provide ships or transport for her own stuff) and people that like the Islands because it is a lot more relaxed and a very friendly environment between channels out there.

Btw, not everybody in Incursions is like that, OIC is my hobby and I founded the channel because a lot of people asked me to provide armor based Inc fleets again after leaving TDF last year, all of our FCs actually live in Low Sec, WH space or 0.0 instead of empire and this is also true for a lot of other Channel leaders and FCs(and most consider it more enjoyable shooting pos halve the day or afk rat on your own). This is also true for most smaller channels or high end fleets, where the low/WH/0.0 player is far more common and the normal high sec player is often the minority.

Incursions just on islands however is still a bad idea, because it actually burns out the orga staff(for every hour on grid there is at least 1h of hauling, scouting, organising or planning involved) fairly quick and it should not be considered as a thing we could do every week. It took me over 8h to move everything off the Island again, including some BS from other people to and 3h after that, not even done with sorting out all the inventory used over there in containers that include the full fitting for my 8 Island Logis and my own 12 island BS, I had to move to the next incursion again because the players did look for a FC. Self organisation doesn't work for any big Low Sec, WH or 0.0 entity and it doesn't work for Incursion channels once you leave high sec, most of the the logistics are in both cases done by a very small minority that has to spend a lot of hours to do it. I for myself just spend like 40h over the last 2 weeks on the Island Incs for hauling and orga stuff, that comes on top of my hours as FC on grid and this is only for one channel, you can do the math how many man hours it takes some of us to enable 100 people to fly out there every day.

I guess I just don't see what all this accomplishes. Personally I think that highsec should have L5s, and that all highsec PvE could use a buff to make it on par with wormholes and npc null, where the rewards can often be staggering.

Personally, I see only downsides in the island idea. I'm definitely not taking any kind of risk in getting my ship to an island - I'm just going to pay someone to do it. I could care less about the whole pirate, pvp, blah blah, whatever stuff, it's just another one time cost I pay and never think about again. Being on an island makes loot even more sucky, so now I'm super incentivized to blitz missions and ignore loot, which makes them even more boring.

So all you are really doing is creating some work for JF services and inconveniencing mission runners, who will by and large pay someone else to assume the risk rather than do so themselves. Why do we want this? I guess the L5 angle is something, but we could just put those in regular highsec.

I guess I'm saying if you really think the risk/reward of L4's and incursions in highsec is out of whack (and personally I don't - I think they need a buff), then forcing everyone to islands isn't going to change that, because the mission runners will outsource the risk, and the risk/reward will stay the same....except for some one time fees paid to JF pilots.

NO
-1
And whatever other negatives you want to apply to this idea.

Mission running received a huge nerf with the reprocessing changes dropping average income by approximately 20% for everyone I know. How much more of nerf do you think lvl 4's need?
The usual disclaimer about your mileage may vary applies. I have seen charts indicating a drop of as little as 10% to some that indicate a drop of nearly 50% so apply whatever your experience has shown.

The only players I see that would benefit from this are
1. gankers who will congregate in the low sec pipes to get the idiots that try to fly a mission BS through to these islands or try to fly the loot out to a place where they can get a better price
2. gankers in the "islands" because they can set up shop in a tightly controlled space making it extremely easy to find the mission runners. KNowing all the while that ALL lvl 4 mission runner will have to come into an "island".
3. those who manufacture and sell ships/fitiings and ammo in the area. Which would likely mean the larger alliances because they are the ones that will have the resources and abilities to safely move the required materials into these "islands"
4. those who offer jf services into and out of these islands

You may consider this adding content, I call it just a plain old bad idea for the game as a whole. We do not need more ways to pour ungodly amounts of ISK into the wallets of the largest alliances in the game and I fear that would be the ultiamte outcome of this idea. More ISK for ferry servies, more ISK for the ship replacements, more ISK from the ammo.

And yes I have played in one of these "islands" before. When I was there they called it the Mili loop. I hated it when I was there as a permanent resident because of the risks associated with the low sec pipe and our CEO even offered free JF service on a twice a month round trip into and out of the area to minimize the risks. He moved the corp there to try and get the mining fleets etc away from gankers and war decs but it really made it worse because we were so tightly confined it made us easier targets. And gankers/war dec players usually do not have the same aversion to low sec that the carebears do. Ultimately being there and the CEO's refusal to move out kiklled the corp because we could not attract new players because of the risks of the low sec pipe. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Devoid/Mili

As the phrase goes been there done that and have no desire to do it again. Move level 4 missions into one of these "islands" and I for one will just quit playing. Wondering how many others would do that same and wondering how that adds content to the game?

You just said it yourself; "people who are willing are doing so even now".

Exactly. Anyone who was going to leave high-sec to pursue PvE content in null/low/WH space for its increased reward incentives IS ALREADY DOING SO. Every suggestion to buff incentive in these zones has nothing to do with getting those players NOT doing so out into that space (and never will accomplish that goal); it's merely to give the denizens of those regions a reason to stay instead of having to create high-sec L4/incursion alts to farm ISK competitively.

Further, of the small % of high-sec PvE players who might willingly choose to move to low/null if only they knew, this is one more chance to expose that small % to the joys of low/null life without unduly burdening the vast majority of high-sec PvE players that simply want to run their PvE content in peace. Getting logistics sorted across a low/null barrier is an entirely different form of risk and pain than actually trying to run PvE content in low/null; one that I'm certain high-sec PvE players would accept.

Finally, I'm not sure how they would see a bump in earnings when I'm talking about taking the existing rewards for L4/incursion content OUT of contiguous high-sec entirely. At best, taking on transport risks yourself, you'd be making the same rewards as before for somewhat more risk. The alternative is to wait for CCP to get around to nerfing L4/incursion income, which seems like a fairly inevitable outcome to anyone looking at the balance of this stuff currently.

Osmon is a massive ganker hub. As are the incursion hubs. Concentrated PvE play ALREADY happens in massive quantities, so saying that islands would somehow increase this is, IMO, both untrue and inconsequential.

You could not attract new players because the exact same content was available in contiguous high-sec. If that mission/incursion content had ONLY been available in the island, your corp would have thrived. Your CEO made the mistake of believing human nature could be changed; NO ONE is going to take on the extra risk of going to an island if the same content is available in contiguous space instead. However, if CCP changed the landscape of the game so that was no longer true, I believe most high-sec PvE players WOULD take on that risk as a necessary part of doing business, unlike any other suggestion that tries to force them to actually do their PvE content in low/null/WH space (which will never fly).



Your choice is to accept more risk in the balance of earning L4/incursion income, or expect more nerfs to that income. I suspect you'd be just as likely to threaten to quit if the latter were suggested instead of the former. Either way, expect one of the two as the current balance is simply off. The reproc nerf helped a bit, but only really impacted mission runners and had no effect on the cash cow of incursion content.