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jump changes - is it true

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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-10-07 08:23:56 UTC
I was having a convo with someone last night. This perso informed me that the coming changes to jump freighters means that they will only be able to jump every couple of hours or so.

If this is true wont it kill off regions of nullsec that are far away from high sec trading hubs?

will everybody move to systems that are only 1 jf jump from high?
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2014-10-07 08:26:12 UTC
Yep we are all allready packing up for our move to high sec
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2014-10-07 08:27:16 UTC
did you read the dev blog?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-10-07 08:28:18 UTC
i cant now. im at work and they block it.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#5 - 2014-10-07 08:29:27 UTC
And the industrialists are rubbing their hands together gleefully because they're going to start an industrial empire in nullsec.

Sell ships to the hired guns, pay the miners with the ISK earned from selling said ships, hired guns protect miners and haulers, and the self dependent nation slowly spreads its economic influence and takes over the world.

The Drake is a Lie
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#6 - 2014-10-07 08:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Bastion Arzi wrote:
i cant now. im at work and they block it.


They block the dev blogs by not the forums? wat.

Either way here's the important bit for you:

Quote:
Every time you use any jump drive, jump bridge or jump portal (hereafter all treated as "a jump"; note that this does NOT include stargate travel!), you will accumulate jump fatigue. If your fatigue is below 1 before a jump, your fatigue will be 1 + (light years travelled) after the jump. For subsequent jumps, the fatigue is multiplied after each jump by 1 + (light years travelled). This stays on the character as mentioned earlier, and decays at a rate of 0.1 per minute.

After a jump is complete but before your fatigue is increased, you gain a jump cooldown timer. The length of this timer is a number of minutes equal to your jump fatigue (before being increased by that jump!), and you are unable to make another jump of any kind until this timer expires. Note importantly that, because fatigue decays at a slower rate than a cooldown timer, you will retain fatigue for a length of time after your cooldown timer expires. Additionally, there is a minimum jump cooldown of 1 + (light years travelled) minutes. (See Appendix A for examples.)


EDIT: this stuff too!

Quote:
Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills; this is both necessary to allow us to not penalize short-distance travel in a cleaner way, and also as a goal in and of itself to constrain the distance covered in single hops. . (Note that jump portal range on a ship is always the same as its own jump drive range.)


Quote:
Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math we’re doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1. We will still likely want to revisit the logistical power of these ships in future, but for now we want to bring them into the new system without nerfing them too hard.

The Drake is a Lie
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-10-07 08:33:10 UTC
yeah the blogs are filtered under games lol. luckily the forums is ok.

anyway these changes suck. i have just moved back to null sec and pretty far from hi. getting ships and equipment will be a problem now.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#8 - 2014-10-07 08:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Bastion Arzi wrote:
yeah the blogs are filtered under games lol. luckily the forums is ok.

anyway these changes suck. i have just moved back to null sec and pretty far from hi. getting ships and equipment will be a problem now.


Make them local, that was half the reason for crius. Recruit more miners and manufacturers.

Part of the the point is that you shouldn't be relying on highsec the first place.

The other part is that you shouldn't be fighting anyone want, whenever you want because that's what causes blue donuts. If anyone can batphone their allies in at any time from anywhere then no one bother attacking cause they know they'll get blobbed. Jump drives should be the tactical exception, not the norm.

Edit: Also makes supply lines way more vulnerable which finally adds a new layer to the warfare. The alliance that relies too heavily on high sec will get blockaded because there will be few enough systems that you can jump to from empire that they could cut off your JFs and force you to take normal freighters through gate camps.

The Drake is a Lie
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-10-07 08:38:54 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
And the industrialists are rubbing their hands together gleefully because they're going to start an industrial empire in nullsec.

Sell ships to the hired guns, pay the miners with the ISK earned from selling said ships, hired guns protect miners and haulers, and the self dependent nation slowly spreads its economic influence and takes over the world.


Where is the ISK introduced into the system in that model? You pay hired guns, hired guns buy ships, you pay miners, miners produce minerals, ISK to pay miners or hire guns comes from _______.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-10-07 08:41:14 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
yeah the blogs are filtered under games lol. luckily the forums is ok.

anyway these changes suck. i have just moved back to null sec and pretty far from hi. getting ships and equipment will be a problem now.


Make them local, that was half the reason for crius. Recruit more miners and manufacturers.

Part of the the point is that you shouldn't be relying on highsec the first place.

The other part is that you shouldn't be fighting anyone want, whenever you want because that's what causes blue donuts. If anyone can batphone their allies in at any time from anywhere then no one bother attacking cause they know they'll get blobbed. Jump drives should be the tactical exception, not the norm.


i see your point but then why jf's and not just titan bridges?
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-10-07 08:46:55 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
And the industrialists are rubbing their hands together gleefully because they're going to start an industrial empire in nullsec.

Sell ships to the hired guns, pay the miners with the ISK earned from selling said ships, hired guns protect miners and haulers, and the self dependent nation slowly spreads its economic influence and takes over the world.


Where is the ISK introduced into the system in that model? You pay hired guns, hired guns buy ships, you pay miners, miners produce minerals, ISK to pay miners or hire guns comes from _______.


It's not like Jita gives out ships for free, the money is already there from moons and taxes.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#12 - 2014-10-07 08:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
And the industrialists are rubbing their hands together gleefully because they're going to start an industrial empire in nullsec.

Sell ships to the hired guns, pay the miners with the ISK earned from selling said ships, hired guns protect miners and haulers, and the self dependent nation slowly spreads its economic influence and takes over the world.


Where is the ISK introduced into the system in that model? You pay hired guns, hired guns buy ships, you pay miners, miners produce minerals, ISK to pay miners or hire guns comes from _______.


Ratting and running complexes while there's nothing to fight.

It was a off the top of my head concept though so certainly could use some tweaking. For instance, the other problem is that assuming that miners aren't blowing up regularly they'll eventually get everyone's ISK.

You could also go full blown communistic and only use ISK for the ISK sinks as needed such as manufacture bills to sov bills and that all ships and modules and ore are communal (within reason with access rights) and all effort is for the greater good of the collective. Since you can make WAY more ISK from ratting than you spend on sinks this format could eventually amass a great wealth that could be used to bolster its forces either by importing the goods it lacks or by hiring extra mercs.

Though that also assume you can get enough people to drink the kool-aid on that sort of scheme.

But you could manage it with an API system the reads people's activities and assigns them "LP" that they then use to get the next ship. If you can get the infrastructure set up online it'd be like somer's redeeming system. Keep the "Somer ISK" or convert to real ISK at a conversion rate or take the ship direct for cheaper than it would be in straight ISK. The only hole there is in that plan is how you track the mining fleets, you'd have to have a single designated mining fleet always open, 23.5/7 with the boss being always on so he can track the "loot log" to know who mined which amounts. Ratting can be tracked with wallet entries and manufacture can be tracked with the industrial job API. Logistical work, and combat fleet work would be harder to manage for participation. However if CCP added "damage healed" on kill mails not only would you get more logi to participate but also give a metric on how to reward them. Damage dealt and damaged healed in ISK value. bam

Anyway I'm rambling here.... I'm just loving the idea of a self running nullsec group, the ideas and pros and cons of them are all coming at me at once and it's nearly 2 AM lol

The Drake is a Lie
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#13 - 2014-10-07 08:56:43 UTC
You'll be able to jump every 6 minutes with a JF if you aren't a moron.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#14 - 2014-10-07 08:58:05 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
yeah the blogs are filtered under games lol. luckily the forums is ok.

anyway these changes suck. i have just moved back to null sec and pretty far from hi. getting ships and equipment will be a problem now.


Make them local, that was half the reason for crius. Recruit more miners and manufacturers.

Part of the the point is that you shouldn't be relying on highsec the first place.

The other part is that you shouldn't be fighting anyone want, whenever you want because that's what causes blue donuts. If anyone can batphone their allies in at any time from anywhere then no one bother attacking cause they know they'll get blobbed. Jump drives should be the tactical exception, not the norm.


i see your point but then why jf's and not just titan bridges?


It's jumping as a whole. The capital fleets along side those bridges are a big part of the blob too. They did give that big reduction to JFs though. Make sure you see my edit above. So they aren't completely cutting the JFs legs off, but certainly making the load heavier.

The Drake is a Lie
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-10-07 08:59:34 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
You'll be able to jump every 6 minutes with a JF if you aren't a moron.


making several small jumps? using several alts? how?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#16 - 2014-10-07 09:02:54 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
You'll be able to jump every 6 minutes with a JF if you aren't a moron.


making several small jumps? using several alts? how?

Jump. Wait 6 minutes. Jump. Wait 6 minutes. etc.

Full fatigue after the first 5 LY jump for a JF is 6 minutes. Assuming you don't jump within that time, your free to jump again with no additional penalties at the end of that 6 minutes.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-10-07 09:04:40 UTC
ah thats manageable. ty
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#18 - 2014-10-07 09:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Bastion Arzi wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
You'll be able to jump every 6 minutes with a JF if you aren't a moron.


making several small jumps? using several alts? how?


The minimum timer is 6 minutes so you could cover 10ly with 6 min in between. This will give 6 fatigue after the first jump and then 36 after the second jump. But since the 36 applies AFTER the second jump the third jump will also only take a 6 min wait.

After the third though the fatigue will be 216 and the wait will be 36 min.

But assuming you only have 3 jumps your fatigue will still be 36 and will take 6 hours to get rid of.

None of this considers the 0.6 that is removed from the fatigue for having to wait those 6 minutes or the fact that JF's have a 90% reduction to range for the purpose of these calculations.

So see? More jumps, but it's not THAT bad.

The Drake is a Lie
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-10-07 09:22:34 UTC
ok cool ty
cherry popping
#20 - 2014-10-07 10:27:20 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
yeah the blogs are filtered under games lol. luckily the forums is ok.

anyway these changes suck. i have just moved back to null sec and pretty far from hi. getting ships and equipment will be a problem now.


Make them local, that was half the reason for crius. Recruit more miners and manufacturers.

Part of the the point is that you shouldn't be relying on highsec the first place.

The other part is that you shouldn't be fighting anyone want, whenever you want because that's what causes blue donuts. If anyone can batphone their allies in at any time from anywhere then no one bother attacking cause they know they'll get blobbed. Jump drives should be the tactical exception, not the norm.

Edit: Also makes supply lines way more vulnerable which finally adds a new layer to the warfare. The alliance that relies too heavily on high sec will get blockaded because there will be few enough systems that you can jump to from empire that they could cut off your JFs and force you to take normal freighters through gate camps.


the problem is you can't make em local by lack of resources in a lot of far away regions
they should have tackled that issue first ,you seriously think people would rely on highsec of they could get materials locally?
i mean i (used to) do t2 building in null there is now way i can get the moonmats for that locally so i'm gonna move production to highsec kill the cynotoons park the now useless jf pilot and reduce game to just ratting
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