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Why does ME only apply to some input materials, and not all of them?

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Cedric Mactavish
Shiva Hara
#1 - 2014-10-02 17:31:42 UTC
This is an example:

I have a Nanite Repair Paste BPO, perfectly researched - i.e., should get 10% reduction in mats required. Mats required per run are:
- 1 x Gel-Matrix Biopaste
- 4 x Nanites
- 1 x Data Chips

So when I set it up for a 100 run job (in Jita), I see the following requirements:
- 100 x Gel-Matrix Biopaste
- 360 x Nanites
- 100 x Data Chips

I'm getting the ME bonus on the Nanites, but not on the other two mats. Is that right? And if so, how can I tell in advance (i.e, in a calculator) which mats will get the bonus and which won't?
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#2 - 2014-10-02 18:27:06 UTC
Any required component with a quantity of 1 per run is not affected by ME.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2014-10-02 18:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Total Material = CEILING[ number of runs * base material amount * (1 - ME %) * any other multipliers like facilities or teams ]

where CEILING[ x ] = smallest integer not less than x.

Any differences are from the rounding; more runs means fractions become more significant.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-10-02 18:46:52 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Total Material = CEILING[ number of runs * base material amount * (1 - ME %) * any other multipliers like facilities or teams ]

where CEILING[ x ] = smallest integer not less than x.

Any differences are from the rounding; more runs means fractions become more significant.


max(runs,CEILING(number of runs * base material amount * (1 - ME %) * any other multipliers like facilities or teams )

Where Ceiling takes a number with a fractional part up to the next highest integer.

1.001 becomes 2. 1 remains 1.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-10-02 18:48:48 UTC
Copy-paste from a thread this morning.

From the Crius patch notes:

Quote:

Material Efficiency calculations are now applied to the whole jobs, not individual runs. This means manufacturing a large batch of items will still give some reduction on Assembly Arrays instead of being simply negated.

* We will be rounding up to the next significant digit, which means that 14.4 Tritanium required to manufacture 10x cheap-quality holoreels will actually be rounded to 15.
* Whole and single items will not be affected by this calculation. This is most relevant for Tech I items required for the manufacturing of Tech II variants. For example, building 10 Paladins will not require 9 Apocalypse if you have a 10% ME.


The second bullet point is relevant in this case.
Cedric Mactavish
Shiva Hara
#6 - 2014-10-02 19:00:01 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Total Material = CEILING[ number of runs * base material amount * (1 - ME %) * any other multipliers like facilities or teams ]

where CEILING[ x ] = smallest integer not less than x.

Any differences are from the rounding; more runs means fractions become more significant.


max(runs,CEILING(number of runs * base material amount * (1 - ME %) * any other multipliers like facilities or teams )

Where Ceiling takes a number with a fractional part up to the next highest integer.

1.001 becomes 2. 1 remains 1.



Ah, the max(runs, ...) bit is what I needed, thanks.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#7 - 2014-10-04 09:49:47 UTC
ME research never has had an effect on any planetary interaction derived materials used on blueprints to manufacture items. That's why it was always pointless to do ME research on POS tower and POS array blueprints as they mostly use just P4 material. People still used to do ME research though because it looked good.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-10-04 10:33:08 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
ME research never has had an effect on any planetary interaction derived materials used on blueprints to manufacture items.


Yes it did. Fuel blocks as an example.

POS towers and arrays didn't use to need to be researched because pre-Crius all their materials were in the 'extra materials' category, not because they were planetary materials. Any BP that had any PI item in the normal materials had those PI items subject to ME just like any other material
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#9 - 2014-10-07 05:26:25 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
ME research never has had an effect on any planetary interaction derived materials used on blueprints to manufacture items.


Yes it did. Fuel blocks as an example.

POS towers and arrays didn't use to need to be researched because pre-Crius all their materials were in the 'extra materials' category, not because they were planetary materials. Any BP that had any PI item in the normal materials had those PI items subject to ME just like any other material




Also nanite paste did not require ME because ME was calculated per run and everything was well below 10 unites. Now its calculated per batch so it affects the nanites.
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#10 - 2014-10-07 05:58:53 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
ME research never has had an effect on any planetary interaction derived materials used on blueprints to manufacture items. That's why it was always pointless to do ME research on POS tower and POS array blueprints as they mostly use just P4 material. People still used to do ME research though because it looked good.


Wrong. It had no effect on extra materials.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-10-07 08:06:15 UTC
Because it would require work to decide which materials are indivisible (say t1 ship for t2 ship) or not (say 1m3 trit for ammo).

Its much more important to rename modules so they have generic fantasy game names with very little functional change.
Elvandari
Valheru industries
#12 - 2014-10-07 12:18:21 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Because it would require work to decide which materials are indivisible (say t1 ship for t2 ship) or not (say 1m3 trit for ammo).

Its much more important to rename modules so they have generic fantasy game names with very little functional change.


actually it takes no work...if you have 1x of each material in the original BP it is indivisible
so for that nanite paste the only item affected by ME: nanites as there is 1x of everything else which will never be affected by ME no matter how many you will produce
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#13 - 2014-10-08 04:07:02 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Because it would require work to decide which materials are indivisible (say t1 ship for t2 ship) or not (say 1m3 trit for ammo).

Its much more important to rename modules so they have generic fantasy game names with very little functional change.


Personally I think Module balancing is of slightly more importance than making sure ME affects or does not affect specific fringe cases. Currently the system is working as intended and single units are not affected by ME.

PS, Maybe Biopaste comes in a jar and its used to store the Nanite paste and hence its not divisible.