These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Warp Core Stabilizer - How to improve the current module use in PVP

Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#61 - 2014-10-06 12:51:28 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
... i know its hard for solo pilots...



Actually its not but don't tell anyone. You just have to plan for what you wish to achieve :D
Jason Ozran
TPPT MTF
Attaque Le Tracteur
#62 - 2014-10-06 12:58:10 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jason Ozran wrote:
That is true, but CCP hasn't change FW since it has been created, and it is pretty much OK apart from the AFK farmers.

Lol. You must be new. FW has been changed countless times by CCP, pretty massive changes too. It has always had loads of problems, and FW farmer are just one of them. CCP are not going to balance the game around you, so you might as well give up. Warp core stabs are fine, FW and your ineptitude to fit your ship correctly are the only problems.

I meant since I started playing, not since it was created, my bad on this one. But since 2011, not much has changed. I even see the same guys in the same systems doing the same plexes all day long :)
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#63 - 2014-10-06 13:06:01 UTC
Jason Ozran wrote:
.... I even see the same guys in the same systems doing the same plexes all day long :)


And you don't look up their kills to see their fits and refit accordingly???
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#64 - 2014-10-06 13:06:43 UTC
Jason Ozran wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jason Ozran wrote:
That is true, but CCP hasn't change FW since it has been created
Lol. You must be new. FW has been changed countless times by CCP, pretty massive changes too.

I meant since I started playing, not since it was created

Hehe, that pretty much sums up your current attitude. The game doesn't revolve around you, altering warp core stabs would have massive changes across every area of the game. And like we keep telling you, warp core stabs aren't even the problem.

Jason Ozran wrote:
But since 2011, not much has changed.

Oh really? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online#Inferno
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
Jayai Syndicate
#65 - 2014-10-06 13:13:46 UTC
I agree with you my ogb using fw friend, but the problem is not the module. The problem is faulty game mechanics that gives bacon to semi-afk players.

If for example dps checks would be added to de-plexing like they are now in o-plexing, then stabby semi-afk farming will become almost irrelevant.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#66 - 2014-10-06 13:14:30 UTC
One previous suggestion I made that OP may consider constructive is that the thingybob you must orbit should have an area of effect that's 10-20km larger than the maximum orbit radius in which anyone trying to warp gets the standard 'interference is preventing you from running away' message...
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
Jayai Syndicate
#67 - 2014-10-06 13:21:30 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
One previous suggestion I made that OP may consider constructive is that the thingybob you must orbit should have an area of effect that's 10-20km larger than the maximum orbit radius in which anyone trying to warp gets the standard 'interference is preventing you from running away' message...

It is a half-baked solution that doesn't solve much.
Jason Ozran
TPPT MTF
Attaque Le Tracteur
#68 - 2014-10-06 13:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Ozran
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Jason Ozran wrote:
.... I even see the same guys in the same systems doing the same plexes all day long :)


And you don't look up their kills to see their fits and refit accordingly???

The ones that are in those system are 20 in the same plex. Good luck to fight that alone. The ones stabbed have a very short lifetime (<3 weeks) but come back real fast.



Tell me you're joking. Yeah OK you are. I obviously meant Factional Warfare wise...same hubs, same plexes size, same FW missions, same requirements Cool

Ashlar Vellum wrote:
I agree with you my ogb using fw friend, but the problem is not the module. The problem is faulty game mechanics that gives bacon to semi-afk players.

If for example dps checks would be added to de-plexing like they are now in o-plexing, then stabby semi-afk farming will become almost irrelevant.

Totally agree, since WCS would not help you survive. But CCP being CCP, they never had the balls to kick farmers in this game, even completely AFK and making the game uninteresting and boring. In highsec, fine, but in lowsec... So as a first step, that could help solving some issues, but the core of the problem would remain, I'll give you that.
Captain Cean
Male Mans of Mans
#69 - 2014-10-06 13:38:03 UTC
you cry cause you cant "fight" people with stabs

that would be great kills.

this is like cry about a miner that dont want to make a duel in high with you.

When you go hunt in the most Passiv fw low sec you must expect stabbed ships
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#70 - 2014-10-06 14:00:22 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
One previous suggestion I made that OP may consider constructive is that the thingybob you must orbit should have an area of effect that's 10-20km larger than the maximum orbit radius in which anyone trying to warp gets the standard 'interference is preventing you from running away' message...

It is a half-baked solution that doesn't solve much.


I need a better oven :D Or just save the money and re-iterate 'bring more scram...' again Cool
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-10-06 14:44:24 UTC
Jason Ozran wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Jason Ozran wrote:
.... I even see the same guys in the same systems doing the same plexes all day long :)


And you don't look up their kills to see their fits and refit accordingly???

The ones that are in those system are 20 in the same plex. Good luck to fight that alone. The ones stabbed have a very short lifetime (<3 weeks) but come back real fast.



Tell me you're joking. Yeah OK you are. I obviously meant Factional Warfare wise...same hubs, same plexes size, same FW missions, same requirements Cool

Ashlar Vellum wrote:
I agree with you my ogb using fw friend, but the problem is not the module. The problem is faulty game mechanics that gives bacon to semi-afk players.

If for example dps checks would be added to de-plexing like they are now in o-plexing, then stabby semi-afk farming will become almost irrelevant.

Totally agree, since WCS would not help you survive. But CCP being CCP, they never had the balls to kick farmers in this game, even completely AFK and making the game uninteresting and boring. In highsec, fine, but in lowsec... So as a first step, that could help solving some issues, but the core of the problem would remain, I'll give you that.

You have literally no clue what you are talking about. You don't even seem to know about the Inferno expansion (which was the biggest thing that hit FW since its inception) despite claiming you have played since 2011, let alone enough understanding of the rest of the game to propose any changes.

/end thread
Jason Ozran
TPPT MTF
Attaque Le Tracteur
#72 - 2014-10-06 15:20:40 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
You have literally no clue what you are talking about. You don't even seem to know about the Inferno expansion (which was the biggest thing that hit FW since its inception) despite claiming you have played since 2011, let alone enough understanding of the rest of the game to propose any changes.

/end thread

Read again what I said. I am not talking about LPs, how to take a system/upgrade it or deny docking. This is completely off topic here. If CCP, in the past two years (Inferno was May 2012, which is when I started playing) had changed the defensive plexing to a more challenging one for example, as someone mentioned earlier, that would have had an impact in what we are talking about here since people would have to actively fight them, therefore preventing the vast majority from being AFK. As you know, since you seem to live there, it is not the case as of today. And it doesn't seem like CCP is willing to change it soon.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#73 - 2014-10-06 15:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jason Ozran wrote:
That is true, but CCP hasn't change FW since it has been created, and it is pretty much OK apart from the AFK farmers.

Lol. You must be new. FW has been changed countless times by CCP, pretty massive changes too. It has always had loads of problems, and FW farmer are just one of them. CCP are not going to balance the game around you, so you might as well give up. Warp core stabs are fine, FW and your ineptitude to fit your ship correctly are the only problems.



This.

The pve content that attracted farmers was one of those changes. Long ago FW was a ghost town compared to today. Not really a good payout at the end, trashed sec status and faction status with other side. Oh man sign me up...I get all this and crap isk, this is the best.


Have to dangle the pve carrot to get the numbers up.

So now you get the farmers. Welcome to eve. 0.0 and wh's have this "problem" too. Guy out for care bear op wants to avoid pvp, they will find many clever ways to do so. Have to change your fits and tactics sometimes to catch these peeps as some are really really good at not wanting to die and making it happen lol.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
Jayai Syndicate
#74 - 2014-10-06 17:30:07 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
One previous suggestion I made that OP may consider constructive is that the thingybob you must orbit should have an area of effect that's 10-20km larger than the maximum orbit radius in which anyone trying to warp gets the standard 'interference is preventing you from running away' message...

It is a half-baked solution that doesn't solve much.


I need a better oven :D Or just save the money and re-iterate 'bring more scram...' again Cool

Ok.
The first concern is - making scrams and points obsolete in plexes and alpha reign supreme.

Second, you can do some neat things now that will become impossible if there would be 10-20km bubble inside. I'm talking about separating gangs by acceleration gate killing the first tackle and warping away just as cavalry arrives or quickly bounce in and out to see who's in a plex etc.

Third is unavoidable pod loss that will most certainly happen with in-plex bubbles.
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-10-06 17:32:04 UTC
Warp core stabilizers were very well designed in the past, since they had penalties that stopped people to engage
in pve or pvp activities (except some 1 stab macro ravens that still worked).
Introduction of relics a pve content that doesnt require anything, encourages excessive use of stabilizers with no
penalty to activity.
I use some 3 points scramblers on frigates now, and over 30% of the targets when tackled still warp out. Interceptors
really need a bonus to warp strength disruption cause they just dont have enough midslots to be properly fit for tackle
anymore.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#76 - 2014-10-06 21:06:46 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
One previous suggestion I made that OP may consider constructive is that the thingybob you must orbit should have an area of effect that's 10-20km larger than the maximum orbit radius in which anyone trying to warp gets the standard 'interference is preventing you from running away' message...

It is a half-baked solution that doesn't solve much.


I need a better oven :D Or just save the money and re-iterate 'bring more scram...' again Cool

Ok.
The first concern is - making scrams and points obsolete in plexes and alpha reign supreme.

Second, you can do some neat things now that will become impossible if there would be 10-20km bubble inside. I'm talking about separating gangs by acceleration gate killing the first tackle and warping away just as cavalry arrives or quickly bounce in and out to see who's in a plex etc.

Third is unavoidable pod loss that will most certainly happen with in-plex bubbles.


All good points, so simply bringing enough scram is the order of the day
Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#77 - 2014-10-06 21:12:40 UTC
Samuel Wess wrote:
Warp core stabilizers were very well designed in the past, since they had penalties that stopped people to engage
in pve or pvp activities (except some 1 stab macro ravens that still worked).
Introduction of relics a pve content that doesnt require anything, encourages excessive use of stabilizers with no
penalty to activity.
I use some 3 points scramblers on frigates now, and over 30% of the targets when tackled still warp out. Interceptors
really need a bonus to warp strength disruption cause they just dont have enough midslots to be properly fit for tackle
anymore.



Hmm thats interesting, one ceptor with Extended Point and Scram Ranges, and another with Strength of Disruption, makes the lesser used ceptors more valuable and seems to offer an avenue to avoid this issue. though i think it should be a role bonus not per level as it could become extremely hard to balance if it were per level

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#78 - 2014-10-06 22:35:03 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Samuel Wess wrote:
Warp core stabilizers were very well designed in the past, since they had penalties that stopped people to engage
in pve or pvp activities (except some 1 stab macro ravens that still worked).
Introduction of relics a pve content that doesnt require anything, encourages excessive use of stabilizers with no
penalty to activity.
I use some 3 points scramblers on frigates now, and over 30% of the targets when tackled still warp out. Interceptors
really need a bonus to warp strength disruption cause they just dont have enough midslots to be properly fit for tackle
anymore.



Hmm thats interesting, one ceptor with Extended Point and Scram Ranges, and another with Strength of Disruption, makes the lesser used ceptors more valuable and seems to offer an avenue to avoid this issue. though i think it should be a role bonus not per level as it could become extremely hard to balance if it were per level


Except this then makes interceptors OP against haulers and seems unecessary since you can already fit enough scram to catch any frig or like for like vessel
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#79 - 2014-10-06 23:41:15 UTC
Jason Ozran wrote:

Hopelesshobo wrote:
I however disagree with most of your current issues.

Not really actually Big smile

Please try to refrain from making up quotes, or at least ones that are out of context.

Jason Ozran wrote:

Where I think it needs some slight changes, it's that WCS could become, like any other module, part of a fitting strategy, hence the change of drawback. Don't forget that people don't care about its drawback atm, they care about warping out. And that's where it should be nerfed, therefore moving it to agility. Also, as of now, you have on one side proper PVP players that never fit one, for obvious reasons, and on the other side the FW army of freshly created characters sitting at 0 in a fully stabbed ship. Nothing in between, and quotes from local or above comments show that clearly.


That's the thing, WCS in their current form is the counter to points. That is their design. There is also fitting strategy behind this, because their strategy is to run. If they run, then their fitting strategy worked. If you fit more points then they have stabs, then you have won. As it stands now, if you manage to lock down the WCS fit ship, they will die in a ball of fire because they had to dedicate one or more low slot modules to achieve this. Which gimps their fit overall. That's their true drawback.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#80 - 2014-10-07 00:02:37 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Samuel Wess wrote:
Warp core stabilizers were very well designed in the past, since they had penalties that stopped people to engage
in pve or pvp activities (except some 1 stab macro ravens that still worked).
Introduction of relics a pve content that doesnt require anything, encourages excessive use of stabilizers with no
penalty to activity.
I use some 3 points scramblers on frigates now, and over 30% of the targets when tackled still warp out. Interceptors
really need a bonus to warp strength disruption cause they just dont have enough midslots to be properly fit for tackle
anymore.



Hmm thats interesting, one ceptor with Extended Point and Scram Ranges, and another with Strength of Disruption, makes the lesser used ceptors more valuable and seems to offer an avenue to avoid this issue. though i think it should be a role bonus not per level as it could become extremely hard to balance if it were per level


Except this then makes interceptors OP against haulers and seems unecessary since you can already fit enough scram to catch any frig or like for like vessel



2 points i will make on that

1. Your average interceptor has 1-2 utility mids, say the bonus was double strength to targeted interdiction that means 1 long point would act like a scram in strength and 1 scram would act like 2, your average interceptor also isnt fitting 3 point scrams which at that rate would be 6 points and still escapeable to over half the haulers out there. You most likely would be scrammed or pointed once and still be able to get away or double scrammed and yet again get away.

2. Interceptors are only really an issue in high-sec or Null sec, if your tackled on the gate or station by a ceptor in low sec 9/10 it will die before you do unless it has a large support fleet or is receiving very good reps to keep it from being alpha'd and at that point it also needs a very impressive buffer which gimps its speed and fit in most cases. Now if your tackled on a planet or somewhere else in space sure it could be an issue, but like i said its still very conceivable that you would escape in the end anyways outside of extremely specific situations

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet