Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is usually feasible on cruisers, but on frigates that's more difficult since it would usually take more than half the cargo space, therefore limiting what you can carry, such as ammunition and/or cap boosters.



Couple of things here: DC is not the topic of this thread, but whatever. DC is a module that improve your ability to fight, not a kind of anti-game measure such as the WCS or ECM. Plus if you did spent some time doing fits, you would know that DC, although being a very decent and useful module, doesn't necessarily means more tank, especially on frigs (same on T3s).



Not really actually

We do agree on one of the main concern, the one regarding the limitation to enter anything that owns a warp gate. As you say, most of the players that don't want to engage because they decide their ship is not the proper counter to yours already have at least 15 seconds to see you coming on dscan and landing inside, which is more than enough time to leave, counting on that they are active, which they should be. Changing this will be a great (and simple) thing to do. And Large FW plexes don't have gate, therefore you can still fit WCS since your opponent can land right on your face and get more chances to get you. Sounds fair to me

Where I think it needs some slight changes, it's that WCS could become, like any other module, part of a fitting strategy, hence the change of drawback. Don't forget that people don't care about its drawback atm, they care about warping out. And that's where it should be nerfed, therefore moving it to agility. Also, as of now, you have on one side proper PVP players that never fit one, for obvious reasons, and on the other side the FW army of freshly created characters sitting at 0 in a fully stabbed ship. Nothing in between, and quotes from local or above comments show that clearly.

Regarding infinite point, if that ever comes in the dev's mind, I agree there has to be some drawbacks to limit its efficiency: reduced scan resolution, use of a high slot (equal less damage projection), and maybe some other.

Remember that those ideas are proposals, I don't pretend to own the ultimate solution, I am just trying to see what can be done. Thanks for your opinion btw :)

WCS offer HUGE penalties in exchange of the premise of surviving a 1v1 engagment.

If you want to counter WCS, play with friends, or even A friend. That's all you need to counter WCSs.

This is an MMO after all.


You whine, but take into consideration the downsides of fitting a WCS.

I actually agree with the OP that WCS mods are problematic, but everybody else here is burning him alive at the stake. I am not so sure I am ready to burn alongside him.

Overall, I agree that WCS mods should incur more costs to the player's ship given that the whole intent of the mod is to escape PvP scenarios. The first thing that comes to mind is a mass and/or signature radius penalty in addition to the existing targeting range and scan resolution penalties.

If there weren't ways to catch stabbed ships, something would have been done about it
there are ways to catch stabbed ships, so quit whining about it and do something to stop them warping off you have dozens of options

"If you had read the previous posts, you would have realized that everything you propose is already well-known, we don't need to know that scrams counter this module. What we are trying to discuss here is how to reduce their efficiency a bit and make it harder to just leave a fight when you are committed."

First of all if your semi AFK deplexing a site your probably not commiting to a fight when you undock with stabs fitted, lets just get that straight. Second of all if you commit to a fight and want to evac or preserve your investment and you have stabs available and they dont have enough interdiction to stop you then thats the attackers fault not the pilot who warped off because of stabs. The simple fact of the matter is there are ways to stop stabs, all of which are extremely well known and working as intended.

If you dont have the interdiction to a hold a target there, you dont deserve the kill, simple as that
The Game encourages player interaction in many ways, this is one of them. Target keeps warping off? Bring friends to tackle it

Everytime a stabbed ship survives 2 things happen.
1. The Devs can pat themselves on the back because they designed a module that is working with virtually no glitches every day and has gone some time without any major changes or an overhaul
and
2. Someone cries about it because they dont think its fair that their prey got away using applied game mechanics

Please read the previous posts. You are 100 AU away from the topic. FYI, the guys farming are usually PVP targets, not PVE ones.

Once again, the idea is not to remove WCS, it is to make ADJUSTEMENTS. You already have plenty of ways to escape a fight, but this one is just one too easy and way too used, just like the ishtar has become THE T2 cruiser to use recently. And when something is just too good, it is usually a good thing to nerf it slightly to reequilibrate the game. CCP is currently nerfing the cap range of capitals, you really believe everybody's gonna leave? No, they will adapt, like everybody did since 11 years, and this will create new ways of fighting. I did adapt myself, but small changed in game mechanics can help making it a better game. And in this case, limit the AFK farming in the FW. If you want to be AFK and not risk a thing, you go to high security status area, not low ones.

While I am at it, keep using "tears" and "whines" in all your messages. There is nothing better to discard any of your non-arguments.

I remember a rather common term used to describe what people should do about things that aren't broken, Adapt or die. Or in this case, whine or die.

Besides, if it frustrates you to need extra points on your scram to hold them, you haven't looked enough. Some faction/pirate scrams have 3 points of disruption. If you fit 2 of them, they would need 6 WCS to warp off. Since I don't know of a frig with 6 lows, you have whatever you want to tackle in a small plex by the cojones. All at the cost of some extra isk and 1extra mid filled.

The second quote wasn't me and misrepresents my view. Your response to my actual post misses my point whilst reiterating it. I didn't propose anything but rather I stated that WCS are fine *because* the counters are well known. There is no efficiency here to take into account, you either have enough WCS or scram or you don't.

Without checking to be sure I believe that any tech 1 frig has 3 low slots therefore 3 WCS maximum whilst utterly gimping combat utility and survivability. Any like for like counter tech 1 frig can use 2 mid slots to *guarantee* catching a fully WCS fit tech 1 frig whilst still having a mid slot spare. This already puts an attacker at an advantage

Anybody complaining that a frig etc escaped them because of WCS simply didn't fit their ship well enough for the job at hand. The defender in this case 'won' the engagement as their fit and tactics worked better than the attackers. Complaining that someone didn't stand still and die as you shot them really holds no water as the attacker already knows and should have prepared for the fit they expect to encounter.

I am sorry but you just can't say "your fit is bad, you should have been able to catch people with warp core stab" the first time you are going for them. Nobody, absolutely nobody, goes to engage someone with more than one scrambler, that would just be completely stupid (exception of some garmur with short+long point, due to its bonuses). Yes I got 8 in a row stabbed, but how could I know before? Maybe tomorrow I'll have 8 real fights in a row, therefore your "put 3 scrams" arguments is simply invalid for a regular use. And for refitting I already said earlier that people don't go back to the plex til you are in local, so forget about that argument.

Now I agree, it happens, and that's why instead of saying "from now on, you can't fit WCS on any ship anywhere anymore", I, from the beginning of this thread, proposed some minor changes to make it a little more challenging, while giving more chance for everybody to get his part of the fun. You guys, on the other hand, are just 100 miles away from the ideas behind this topic. If it is to tell me I can put 3 scrams, or that "I should know" because I can guess all the fits, well thank you captain obvious, but that's not what I am looking for here. However, if you are willing to discuss the present ideas, or propose new ones, then you are more than welcome!

P.S: Corraidhin Farsaidh my bad for the wrong name in the quote. Edited my message and corrected with proper one.