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Prevent carriers from becoming invincible in lowsec [next expansion]
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cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#1 - 2014-10-04 09:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: cynomakinggirl
Problem Nr 1: A carrier pilot can avoid jump fatigue by traveling through lowsec with a cyno alt. Procedure: Have an alt in jump range with a cyno. Jump through a gate, scan your surroundings with the directional scanner, if safe warp to next gate, if not jump to cyno. Repeat.

Problem Nr 2: It's almost impossible to kill a carrier in lowsec without capitals. Procedure: Warp to a gate and have your triage ready. Engage hostiles at wish. When someone attempts to bump you, activate your triage to make you bump-proof. When triage expires, jump through the gate and warp out.

Solution: Use capacitor for activating gates much like using your jump drive "to dampen out the interference between your jump drive and the stargate". Problem 1 is solved because the carrier won't have enough capacitor to make a jump right after jumping through the stargate, making it impossible to avoid a gate camp. Problem 2 is solved because the carrier will need to repair itself in order to survive and won't have enough capacitor to jump through the stargate.


Edit: problem nr 1 is valid for carriers, supercarriers, titans and dreadnoughts.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-10-04 10:04:43 UTC
Ummm, no?
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2014-10-04 10:58:44 UTC
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#4 - 2014-10-04 11:16:15 UTC
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
unnownrelic
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2014-10-04 11:54:11 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

Hint: They don't use their bomb launchers.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6 - 2014-10-04 12:11:09 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

Double Hint: its called T2 torpedos shooting a suspect capital ship possibly criminal or pulling a trick shot warping to a bookmark or nearby piece, warping back and flipping off the gate guns that can now do fudge all about them while each one cranks 700+ DPS on the carrier with the signature of a small child

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#7 - 2014-10-04 12:34:05 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

Double Hint: its called T2 torpedos shooting a suspect capital ship possibly criminal or pulling a trick shot warping to a bookmark or nearby piece, warping back and flipping off the gate guns that can now do fudge all about them while each one cranks 700+ DPS on the carrier with the signature of a small child


It would take a good 4 minutes for 50 bombers to kill an archon, and a bit more than 5 minutes to kill it with 40 bombers.
If your fleet is only composed of bombers you cannot bump the carrier off the gate, thus it can choose to not go into triage and just wait for the deaggression. In that case you'd need 113 bombers to kill it in under 1 minute.

That's assuming that the carrier pilot does not have scouts and has not seen the fleet coming.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#8 - 2014-10-04 12:38:47 UTC
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

Double Hint: its called T2 torpedos shooting a suspect capital ship possibly criminal or pulling a trick shot warping to a bookmark or nearby piece, warping back and flipping off the gate guns that can now do fudge all about them while each one cranks 700+ DPS on the carrier with the signature of a small child


It would take a good 4 minutes for 50 bombers to kill an archon, and a bit more than 5 minutes to kill it with 40 bombers.
If your fleet is only composed of bombers you cannot bump the carrier off the gate, thus it can choose to not go into triage and just wait for the deaggression. In that case you'd need 113 bombers to kill it in under 1 minute.

That's assuming that the carrier pilot does not have scouts and has not seen the fleet coming.


if you read the post you quoted above i beleive it says "Herocat Fleet Supported by Bombers"
Hmmm what was this about not being able to do anything again? Because we saw the herocat fleet kill caps solo, add bombers? i think i will let that speak for itself

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#9 - 2014-10-04 12:43:01 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
If you think that all it takes to be safe in a carrier on a lowsec gate is to triage for one cycle, you are sorely mistaken.

Hint: there these ships called dreadnaughts or even a nice little herocat fleet augmented by bombers.


Hint: Bombs don't work in LowSec.

Double Hint: its called T2 torpedos shooting a suspect capital ship possibly criminal or pulling a trick shot warping to a bookmark or nearby piece, warping back and flipping off the gate guns that can now do fudge all about them while each one cranks 700+ DPS on the carrier with the signature of a small child


It would take a good 4 minutes for 50 bombers to kill an archon, and a bit more than 5 minutes to kill it with 40 bombers.
If your fleet is only composed of bombers you cannot bump the carrier off the gate, thus it can choose to not go into triage and just wait for the deaggression. In that case you'd need 113 bombers to kill it in under 1 minute.

That's assuming that the carrier pilot does not have scouts and has not seen the fleet coming.


if you read the post you quoted above i beleive it says "Herocat Fleet Supported by Bombers"
Hmmm what was this about not being able to do anything again? Because we saw the herocat fleet kill caps solo, add bombers? i think i will let that speak for itself


Good luck killing a carrier that has intel in all the nearby systems.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#10 - 2014-10-04 12:46:22 UTC
You do realize how many times that has already happened right?
Does the word providence ring a bell? Or Faction warfare space within hotdrop range?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#11 - 2014-10-04 12:47:55 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
You do realize how many times that has already happened right?
Does the word providence ring a bell? Or Faction warfare space within hotdrop range?


This post is about the next expansion that will make it possible for carrier to use stargates.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#12 - 2014-10-04 12:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
and the exact same shiet will keep happening, except now they will get caught and killed on gates too
Look at how long eve has been going almost 11 years later and we still have ALODS Daily, stupid decisions, and textbook mistakes from veterans.
If you think making carrier jump gates is going to change this well then prepare for non consentual sexy time at some point in time

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#13 - 2014-10-04 12:57:23 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
and the exact same shiet will keep happening, except now they will get caught and killed on gates too
Look at how long eve has been going almost 11 years later and we still have ALODS Daily, stupid decisions, and textbook mistakes from veterans.
If you think making carrier jump gates is going to change this well then prepare for non consentual sexy time at some point in time


no, they will just jump through the stargate

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#14 - 2014-10-04 13:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
and the exact same shiet will keep happening, except now they will get caught and killed on gates too
Look at how long eve has been going almost 11 years later and we still have ALODS Daily, stupid decisions, and textbook mistakes from veterans.
If you think making carrier jump gates is going to change this well then prepare for non consentual sexy time at some point in time


no, they will just jump through the stargate


Yep totally going to be able to burn 15k back to the gate in a carrier, which on its own moves at the relative speed of a rusted out pregnant bathtub, im sure they dont have webs or the ability to bump me out of alignment and kill me before i make it. Oh wait im going to die? SUPER DUPER TRIAGE MODE! Oh wait im being nueted and cant move now, might as well self destruct.

Its literally no different than bumping them off station and killing them, which the herocat fleet does very well, You really should look up what these were meant to do, they killed supers with them without dread support, it is Designed to kill caps very efficently, even on stations or gates.

plus if they think your going to make it 1 guy keeps you pointed, everyone de-agresses and then jumps through with you or sends a few guys to catch you on the other side, you align in about 20 seconds, and it only takes a disruptor to stop it all, and if you say Ill fit all warp core stabs
Well then you definently died on the other side of the gate, you had no chance

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#15 - 2014-10-04 13:10:58 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
and the exact same shiet will keep happening, except now they will get caught and killed on gates too
Look at how long eve has been going almost 11 years later and we still have ALODS Daily, stupid decisions, and textbook mistakes from veterans.
If you think making carrier jump gates is going to change this well then prepare for non consentual sexy time at some point in time


no, they will just jump through the stargate


Yep totally going to be able to burn 15k back to the gate in a carrier, which on its own moves at the relative speed of a rusted out pregnant bathtub, im sure they dont have webs or the ability to bump me out of alignment and kill me before i make it. Oh wait im going to die? SUPER DUPER TRIAGE MODE! Oh wait im being nueted and cant move now, might as well self destruct.

Its literally no different than bumping them off station and killing them, which the herocat fleet does very well, You really should look up what these were meant to do, they killed supers with them without dread support, it is Designed to kill caps very efficently, even on stations or gates.

plus if they think your going to make it 1 guy keeps you pointed, everyone de-agresses and then jumps through with you or sends a few guys to catch you on the other side, you align in about 20 seconds, and it only takes a disruptor to stop it all, and if you say Ill fit all warp core stabs
Well then you definently died on the other side of the gate, you had no chance


How about: jump through the stargate -> activate jump drive -> safety.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#16 - 2014-10-04 13:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
and the exact same shiet will keep happening, except now they will get caught and killed on gates too
Look at how long eve has been going almost 11 years later and we still have ALODS Daily, stupid decisions, and textbook mistakes from veterans.
If you think making carrier jump gates is going to change this well then prepare for non consentual sexy time at some point in time


no, they will just jump through the stargate


Yep totally going to be able to burn 15k back to the gate in a carrier, which on its own moves at the relative speed of a rusted out pregnant bathtub, im sure they dont have webs or the ability to bump me out of alignment and kill me before i make it. Oh wait im going to die? SUPER DUPER TRIAGE MODE! Oh wait im being nueted and cant move now, might as well self destruct.

Its literally no different than bumping them off station and killing them, which the herocat fleet does very well, You really should look up what these were meant to do, they killed supers with them without dread support, it is Designed to kill caps very efficently, even on stations or gates.

plus if they think your going to make it 1 guy keeps you pointed, everyone de-agresses and then jumps through with you or sends a few guys to catch you on the other side, you align in about 20 seconds, and it only takes a disruptor to stop it all, and if you say Ill fit all warp core stabs
Well then you definently died on the other side of the gate, you had no chance


How about: jump through the stargate -> activate jump drive -> safety.


You once again forgot that when you decloak theres a timer before you can jump again, a titan could lock you and point you before you jumped same way you cant light cyno the second you land due to magnetic calibration

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#17 - 2014-10-04 13:22:08 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:


You once again forgot that when you decloak theres a timer before you can jump again, a titan could lock you and point you before you jumped same way you cant light cyno the second you land due to magnetic calibration


Making stuff up now?

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#18 - 2014-10-04 14:21:44 UTC
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
You do realize how many times that has already happened right?
Does the word providence ring a bell? Or Faction warfare space within hotdrop range?


This post is about the next expansion that will make it possible for carrier to use stargates.


because they nerfed the jumpdrive into the ground, and i like flying carriers have a dedicated toon for it am ok with that as power projection needed massive nerf but you make it sound like its a buff Ugh

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#19 - 2014-10-04 14:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
cynomakinggirl wrote:
How about: jump through the stargate -> activate jump drive -> safety.

First - you need cap to activate a jump drive. Cap does not regenerate instantly when you jump a gate
Second - you cannot activate anything (including a jump drive) while you have gate cloak
Third - any fleet worth its salt has tacklers on both sides of the gate during a gate fight

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-10-04 14:51:16 UTC
I'll bite.


You aren't hard tackling this cap on the gate before it launches.

So what if it does something funky like.....warp to celestial, let cap regen happen cloaked and then hit next gate. Basically what they do now with cap heavy travel fits and laying low at safes.



Secomnd question is....what cap need do you have in mind? Since this is based on overcoming the field of a jump drive....blops says look at my bpc, and see what I have inside my ship. If you go flat rate, and say less than 50% of ship cap....blops average cap would be that lowest cap needed. Which a cap should have no problems. And you'd just be screwing over blops really .
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