These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Best Spider Tank - Domi or Rattlesnake?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sub Saissore
RedDragon's
#1 - 2014-10-02 16:53:51 UTC
O7

I'm looking to run null anoms for maximum profitability with 2 characters. Both are strongest in drone skills so I was looking at drone boats as primary. Two armor remote rep/cap transfer domis or is a sentry focused rattle chain setup feasible? Again want max dps with reduced travel time. Also want ships that can handle up to 10/10 if possible with just those 2 toons. Tengu is only viable on one toon right now so not preferred. Any other boats I'm missing or that would work better? Both toons have solid support skills to do this all T2, etc. Would like to perma run reps but not required as I'm running in two comps.

Thanks!
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-10-02 21:50:15 UTC
Spider rattler's can tank 50-250% more than spider domies depending on if you run local reps or remote reps, both assuming you're running large cap transfers.

My issue with the Rattlesnake though is that it doesn't have the drone optimal or tracking bonus that the Dominix has. And you're going to be hard-pressed to get tracking computers on a shield rattler... Considering the domi can also get 2-3 computers on top of the hull bonus.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-10-02 22:16:06 UTC
Domi also so much cheaper.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#4 - 2014-10-02 22:24:09 UTC
last time i did anoms in domi, i didn't have to spider tank when using sentries. warp to at max optimal. 1 specific hardener, 1 reactive and large repper. worked for me. we're talking about sanctums right?
Mosh Mikhailov
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-10-03 05:48:37 UTC
I'ts not worth using Rattlesnake in a remote chain setup. The dominix:


  • Does the same DPS as a Rattlesnake with drones.
  • Has better damage application with drones than a Rattlesnake.
  • Aligns faster than a Rattlesnake.
  • Is more efficient as it can use an armor chain setup.
  • Costs significantly less than a Rattlesnake.



I've tried numerous fits after the Rattlesnake revamp so I could trade my Dominix's for something a bit faster for exploration complexes and you just can't beat the Dominix chain setup for things that require lots of tank. The Rattlesnake is only worth flying if you can use it's launchers which doesn't allow for a chain setup, otherwise is basically a bad version of the Dominix without them.

Quote:

My issue with the Rattlesnake though is that it doesn't have the drone optimal or tracking bonus that the Dominix has. And you're going to be hard-pressed to get tracking computers on a shield rattler... Considering the domi can also get 2-3 computers on top of the hull bonus.


You can use Omnidirectional Tracking Enhances now in the lowslots instead of Omni Tracking Links to fix that problem which is viable if you're not using launchers and don't need Ballistic Control Systems.
Vibiana
Frontier Trading Company
#6 - 2014-10-03 07:51:07 UTC
Actually, Armageddon will tank more than a domi in RR setup.
Extra HS for moar RR or cap.
It will apply the same damage as RS or Domi in heavy drone setup, and will apply less than a domi in setry setup.

As for RS/Domi, domi is better geared for the job.
Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
#7 - 2014-10-03 18:01:25 UTC
Dual domi with shield tank reps so much it can handle almost any npc. It's about hardeners.

Also 800dps x2 due to Drone Damage Amps.

Infact, after testing you can probably roll with a tracking enhancer or two in the mids! they tank so much! Careful though you've got no buffer.

1600 dps pair of domi's, hell yes. Rat-Murder.
Sub Saissore
RedDragon's
#8 - 2014-10-04 15:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sub Saissore
Thanks for the replies guys. Looking at EFT, it looks like the Rattlesnake can tank much more DPS as well as output more DPS with a sentry fit at all level 5. However, I wonder what that actually means for applied damage in the real world.

Also, I haven't looked at local reps on the domi, but any thoughts on these fits? They are for blood raider space. Can a spider domi tanking 711 dps survive a 10/10? It makes me a bit worried, but haven't tried it yet. These are the fits I am looking at right now:

[Dominix, Spider Domi]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Curator II x5


DPS: 704 with Curator II's
Tank: 711 Perma-run remote rep tank specd against Blood Raiders
EHP: 84k
Resists: 80.9 / 75.1 / 44.8 / 23.5
Cap stable

If I drop one DDA for another hardener it takes it up to tanking about 950dps.


[Rattlesnake, RR Rattler]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II

EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Curator II x2


DPS: 745 (with launcher and Curator II's) (704 drones only)
Tank: 1395 dps perma-run tank cap stable specced against blood raiders
EHP: 172k (probably over-tanked)...possibly drop an adaptive invuln and add a second tracking link
Resists: 87.5 / 84.6 / 78.3 / 81.9


While I agree the Rattlesnake is much more expensive, they could pay for themselves pretty quickly and the fit is cheap. The numbers, however, are pretty substantial especially in the tank department.

Again, these are for null ratting anoms/DED's.

Any thoughts on these fits or anything worth changing? This will be my first time spider tanking.
Noferatu
Academy of Arms Distribution and Manufacturing
#9 - 2014-10-05 12:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Noferatu
tl;dr : Domi is the king of applied dps when sniping rats in a BS hull.


Assuming you're running Blood Sanctums etc..

[Dominix, Blood Raiders]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
425mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Curator II x5
Garde II x5
Hammerhead II x 5
Hobgoblin II x 5

Combined Garde II dps: 1535
Blood raider tank: 570dps
Cap lasts over an hour with L5 support skills. If you want cap stable, drop the Pump rig and add another RRA rig.
This fit's tank is overkill really but the EANM's give you a a little extra survival time should you get blobbed.

The Garde II's have an optimal of 60k, so warp to 50 from the anom, drop 10 sentries, set 5 to assist and fire the Rail. Again, it's overkill for frigates but it staves off some micromanagement. The assisting Domi doesn't need a gun, so you can add a tractor for those faction wrecks or a DLA, whatever floats your boat.

When running DED's, simply drop an EANM and a DDA, and add a pair of hardeners. And switch the range scripts for tracking.

Curators also work well from about 80k, drop the Omni enhancer from the lows and add another (!) DDA to get 1440dps combined. I tended to use Curators in Blood Sanctums since you stand way off the warp-in point - which again can help against being dropped in on.

If you're feeling brave and have the skills, you could try a pair of Ishtars:

[Ishtar, Blood Raider]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
[empty med slot]
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines

Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Pump II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

Curator II x5

Same dps, much more manoevrability and less travel time. Just use one RAR and pulse the other if needed. Also, the Ishtar fit is about 40 less than the Domi (although, insurance..)
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-06 23:27:05 UTC
Noferatu wrote:


If you're feeling brave and have the skills, you could try a pair of Ishtars:

[Ishtar, Blood Raider]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
[empty med slot]
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines

Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Pump II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

Curator II x5

Same dps, much more manoevrability and less travel time. Just use one RAR and pulse the other if needed. Also, the Ishtar fit is about 40 less than the Domi (although, insurance..)


You are not going to gain anything from the fifth (Drone Damage Amplifier II), 4 is max. So you have 1 slot to fit something :P
Noferatu
Academy of Arms Distribution and Manufacturing
#11 - 2014-10-06 23:56:06 UTC
You have a point, and I'm usually in agreement over the "useless" 5-mod dps modifier. But this guy is running Hordes or Sanctums. It's a pure dps fest. With a 5th DDA, you gain another 40dps to a pair of 'tars with Garde II's, or 35dps with Curators. It sounds feeble I know - but it can make the difference between 5 or 6-shotting a BS rat. Which saves 4 seconds. Which, when grinding Hordes for a few hours, actually adds up to a lot.

So in this case it's worth considering. The other option is an OTE which might apply the dps better (moah tracking) but that mod wasn't around when I was using this fit to kill drones, so I don't know if it's a better choice..