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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5041 - 2014-10-03 07:50:28 UTC
Armagast Sin Truth wrote:
Given that the only limit on the ship is the 5 lightyear jump range -- why not just have the fatigued pilot swap out with a fresh pilot and continue jumping immediatly?

That way you still get there much faster than someone trying to get to the fight all by themselves.

Or does the fatigue get transferred to the new pilot - even tho he is not the one who made the previous jumps?

supposedly having multiple back-up pilots is much more difficult and restrictive (not to mention profitable to CCP) than to simply wait or slow-boat
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5042 - 2014-10-03 07:51:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)


I hope you like paying a high price for t2 gearBlink


A lot of players don't seem to understand that if this poorly thought change hits null logistics, they'll have to switch to using T1 or Meta modules and ships because a hindered null logistics will mean that T2 prices are going to skyrocket.

(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons)
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5043 - 2014-10-03 07:52:30 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?
Armagast Sin Truth
Blackstone and Fairfield Transuniversal
Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance
#5044 - 2014-10-03 07:52:33 UTC
true but if your a big group your likely to have many more capable pilots than a small group would, so and if you need to get there quick this is one way of doing it, and getting an advantage over the small groups.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5045 - 2014-10-03 07:54:56 UTC
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?

travel range. no loner jumping over regions to regions far away. so the route you take now is different as well, by a healthy margin.
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5046 - 2014-10-03 07:55:57 UTC
First off I don't like this change and i think its "stupid"
Yes you have to do something about the problem but pulling out a chair under someone isn't fixing the room.

There is a need to take one big total redraft off nullsec.
Fiddling with this will hurt subscriptions that im pretty sure of.


So back to the draft board here is a few key points i would love you to concider.


#A Cap on the Jump fatigue my suggestion is max 20min, we want a fluid game and 20min downtime is ALOT.
instead of having a stupid timer do the following 0min, 5min, 10min,15min,20min
with the shorter jump range your going to slow down the game anyway.


#B Capitals & gates: If this is going to be a reality I want a 1000mn MWD serious a single drag bubble on each gate and your in for a "NOT SO FUN" night on the town.....

#C This is still hurting Alliance logistic more, I don't wana burn out the guys doing all the hard work. From my perspective
Freigters, Industry ship, Orcas, Rorquals, JF should have the bonus we are all using them I know your going to look in to the Logistics in Nullsec later but Im saying don't wait this have to be done at the same time... ITS IMPERATIVE.
You already messed with the fueling of POS:ES since you can't put a cyno at 0 anymore. yes its a minor thing with an anchord box as a warp to target but its more work. The alliance logistic wing doesn't need it from my standpoint. This is also a key factor to WHY i think we got fewer newer entities in nullsec they don't have the means to do the logistic chain, thus have to work overtime doing it. I would like to see the Loggy ships haveing a Jumpfatigue value that very low even lower then your calculations. There is POSES to fuel, stuff to move out, stuff to move in, posses to put up posses to take down.. angry letters to write ... the list can go on.


#D JB network, this is the big hurt factor for me .... Your cutting down all the trees and realy punishing a character that using JD on a ship. since he will never be able to use the JB network even if he reshipped to another ship.

#E Mediclone, This change is also insane. How about a 8day CD with a skill that can reduce it by 5 days down to 3 days, not only do you get to use with a 8/3day cooldown this isn't an issue anymore is it?



-- Its ok to hurt Force projection
-- It's NOT OK to hurt Alliance logistics
-- It's NOT OK to mess with the JB network.

a JB network is actualy a way to get more fights
as you can ambush a enemy fleet
and seriously i jumped 35+ jumps trough highsec/lowsec/nullsec in a interceptor in less then 20min


This will result in a stagnat Nullsec even more
some parts of Null will be wastelands (no way to have logistic reaches out from)
the defender get another notch on his belt as he alone can drop caps on the enemy pretty safe.
the changes will hurt WH corps looking for WH to attack as moving there fleet to the new entereance hole will be harder.
the changes to JB network will reduce the smallscale fights imho you can't catch the roamers that easily.

please reconsider and do ALL the changes to SOV null in one go .... ONE GO
this changes could very much be ok when combined with other change but as a standalone feature its not.
Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5047 - 2014-10-03 07:56:35 UTC
Duffyman wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)


I hope you like paying a high price for t2 gearBlink


I don't think he knows where the stuff to make t2 mods/ships come from. If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

yea, that's a good point; is 0.0 become selfsustained , what will happen with high sec? if most of the moon minerals remain in the area they are mined(0.0) it won't be hard to guess what's going to happen with prices in empire...

it's the same as with ppl thinking the new system will help smaller corps to get into 0.0; the only way they will manage to keep their stuff will be to join the larger coalition that holds the gates to empire;
otherwise even if, let's say they somehow manage to get a foothold in some remote 0.0 corner of space, they will just loose everything in the moment the big coalition deceide their members need some sport;
in fact, that's much better: let them get a foothold, invest some money in infrastructure then burn it all to the ground, take their station and lock it; with the new jfs mechanics you won't be abble to evac more than one load, so most of the stuff will become locked;
if they come back, let them, then repeat; with some planning the big coalitions will have several nice farming points for their members to keep them happy
Eric Prinz
IDO Research Center
#5048 - 2014-10-03 07:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eric Prinz
Duffyman wrote:
If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

Low sec space have ~30-50% of global moon materials in eve. So it's no difference for hi-sec t2 production.
bringrainfire
Industrial Spy Network
Carthage Empires
#5049 - 2014-10-03 07:59:52 UTC
In my opinion the 5 light years nerf is way to short. 10 light years is probably better. other wise theres no real point in getting that jump cal 5 anymore.

and for a question, since you will be enabling doomsdays in low sec will you also allow supercarrier sup weapons? or even adding 3 others and making them race specific? I'm talking about adding other modules to go with the remote ecm burst that can only be fitted to that race of super carrier
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5050 - 2014-10-03 08:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
Rowells wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?

travel range. no loner jumping over regions to regions far away. so the route you take now is different as well, by a healthy margin.


Which is to say that it has a huge impact on travel time. It's obviously a false statement by greyscale.
marVLs
#5051 - 2014-10-03 08:03:45 UTC
Just imagine how fun will be EVE in next few months and later on after those changes :D


Eve is dying?


EVE IS REBORNING !!!
Chi Ana
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5052 - 2014-10-03 08:05:53 UTC
SubStandard Rin wrote:
First off I don't like this change and i think its "stupid"


please reconsider and do ALL the changes to SOV null in one go .... ONE GO




No please don't, because that probably will result in days of not logging in, boot.ini's lost and other typical ccp stuff.
Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5053 - 2014-10-03 08:06:27 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Just imagine how fun will be EVE in next few months and later on after those changes :D


Eve is dying?


EVE IS REBORNING !!!


yea, i guess the ppl holding the entry points to 0.0 will have allot of fun
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5054 - 2014-10-03 08:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsa Hayes
Why not in exchange for fatigue with a cooldown timer call it jump drive attrition, wear and tear like RL machinery suffers when you use it too often without maintenance.

Each jump adds attrition the more often you jump in a short amount of time the higher the attrition gets, you can still travel around quickly but after a long round trip you better get your ship some maintenance parked at a pos near an X-L maintenance array for some maintenance. The more time passes between jumps the less attrition is added. It will not wear off by itself though.

Accumulated attrition increases the chances of a jump drive failure, which could manifest in different things happening like you arrive at your target system but in a damaged ship, you arrive with a severely damaged JD with severely reduced range.
You arrive with a jump fuel leak which means that you will need a lot more fuel for any further jumps. Depending on the attrition level and the maintenance neglect it could also result in a catastrophic failure wrecking the ship.

Of course maintenance would take time and cost isks , maintaining a huge fleet of caps and supers in pristine condition would cost huge amounts of isks, or you could neglect on the maintenance and lose a couple of caps due to catastrophic JD failures every now and then.

Couple this with a staggered reduction in jump distance for each ship class.

This would prevent people from hotdropping everyone and their mom for the lulz.

This would make hoarding huge fleets of caps/supers expensive to maintain. Docked up caps in stations would receive no maintenance of course.

If you limit the amount of ships an X-L array can handle (I used an X-L array as an example, you could also use a capital assembly array or whatever you fancy more), it would also make maintaining a huge cap fleet more logistically challenging since you´d need more posses and arrays.

Players would have more control as to when they are going to sit out the timer to reduce attrition AND how much isks they are willing to spend on maintenance.

This is just a different angle to make jumping around the map more worthy of thought and foresight. Do you risk putting half your super fleet into maintenance just for a couple of hotdrops on 10 man cruiser gangs and risk getting attacked by your enemy who just waited for an opportunity like this?

It would also generate a much needed isk sink for alliances who are getting stupidly rich at the moment.

Just a different approach to the whole long distance travel affair.
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#5055 - 2014-10-03 08:08:27 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Shivaja wrote:
OK massive massive discussion don't know if any one else did not point out this already but anyway here are my two cents.
IMHO the intended effect that CCP hopes for will not come to be, instead what will happen is that the power blocks will sit over the galaxy map draw projection circles on the map and then theirs pilots put jump clones and stash of capital ships in the middle of each circle ! and tadaaaa we are in the same **** as before only with insane number of capital ships laying around and collecting dust Cool



Yep! A variable Sykes Picot agreement among the major Coalitions.

The sophistication of the EVE player/Null Sec Diplomat should never be underestimated - and if B0ttLord Accords can be executed, then the Coalitions carving up Null sec is easy - and will totally frustrate Yar! Captain Neckbeard will save yer game! approach.

Man I can't wait to see if that actually plays out! I will so lol @ CCP Greyscale and Co.



I'm tellin ya dude, this is just gonna lead to a new BoB... :D

The folks who own the choke points between empire and null will own the GAME. The CEO's and FCs of the megacorps will not be able to resist the temptation...

There will be a HUGE war - till one of them owns just about all of them.

ALL HAIL THE NEW BoB !!!!

The losers will be crying foul and blaming Grayscale for the whole mess.

Then they will have to fix it all over again.

History repeats itself.

Funny how games can mirror life isn't it?

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5056 - 2014-10-03 08:09:57 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Nothing will matter but the choke points. Whoever controls them will be able to control the game. The megas are well represented in the CSM. They all seem to be on board with this plan.

The megas are screaming bloody murder, in case you haven't noticed.

Not really, we seem well set to adapt to these changes.
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5057 - 2014-10-03 08:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jethro Winchester
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


Does this magic button also move all of my assets? Or am I going to be forced to either spend a month sitting in station trying to sell everything, spend a month trying to pull off the solo logistics, or abandon a few billion in assets and start over?


I don't think you understand just how much stagnation this entire clusterfuck of an expansion is going to cause.

My vote for the expansion name is EVE:Hourglass.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5058 - 2014-10-03 08:11:45 UTC
Eric Prinz wrote:
Duffyman wrote:
If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

Low sec space have ~30-50% of global moon materials in eve. So it's no difference for hi-sec t2 production.


Uh, by your estimation which I did not check yet, null sec space has ~50-70% of global moon materials in EVE. How is killing null logistics NOT going to affect T2 material prices? Are you serious?
Anthar Thebess
#5059 - 2014-10-03 08:11:49 UTC
Those changes are very nice
This is good direction.

Think about it :
- jump bridges will have totally new function.
- gate by gate travel in most of the situation , as you will have to manage your fatigue in order to be ready for some fleet.
- no more constant titan hot drops , that where running game to the point , people usually did not engage "obvious baits" even when they where not baits.
- no more hot dropping supers on lone cruiser 2 regions away.
- no more "i am everywhere"
- limiting range makes new staging points for big blobs - unable to hold multiple regions without possibility to do any thing.

Best compare , this is current range for NC slowcat fleet :
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Archon,5/FAT-6P

Remember that this is 1 jump , after making this jump, they can simply re dock on some station and jump again withing less than minute.

Now after this changes the same fleet will be able to jump so far as :
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Aeon,0/FAT-6P

So the range of single jump dropped from 309 to 28

Think how much fun you will get from escorting your freighters , jump freighters on transport op or even few capitals you are going to take to some timer or how much fun you will get to from hitting this kind of operation.

"Fun" will be shifting from few that where abusing mechanic to wide eve population.
Those are very good changes, changes that can really save this game from new competition products.

For those NC and PL players that states - im dropping my subscription, or im not subbing my super any more.
Remember that most of those players where playing different games while waiting for pings.

Most of the pure super accounts are not subbed usually, as there is no reason to do it.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#5060 - 2014-10-03 08:12:18 UTC
For some time now I've seen CCP be satisfied with just tinkering with mechanics and problems. They've been talking about fixing things in blogs, but the solutions landing on TQ have been bland and focused only on alleviating some of the problems. Frankly it had led me to think you lacked the balls to actually alter things from what they are today to properly address the issues and try to fix them. This change has done more to restore my faith in the future of this game then years worth of tweaks, balance passes or marketing talk have. I haven't been this excited about the future of EVE in a long time and I'm eagerly looking forward to what else you have in store for us.

Kudos to the dev team on this one.