Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I do not dissagree at all, but you guys are missing the key point.

The whole point is that ESS should encourage pvp

There is no doubt that players will always find ways "around" things, and then other players will adapt to that.
ESS is an ok source of income for pirates, and many times also an interesting activity, especially when you have people actually responding, and trying to kill you. Having an ess inside an anomally will not prevent an experienced pirate to steal from it, but it will reduce (prevent) any chance of pvp from happening.
The defenders will usually warp in an implantless pod to share, or use a stupid strong ship and ignore the rats, or even simply ignore the pirate "because the rats will kill him".
On the other hand, the attacker can simply risk and hope to get lucky or wait and react to the defenders, but in most cases he will not engage the enemy. Why? because there is no point in engaging a ship 2 classes bigger or even to try and shoot a pod if the anomally is hard enought and could pop you before you can warp out with your ship intact.

Ofcourse, you can go after ess-in-anomalies with a bigger ship like a t3, if you dont mind the stupid-long time it takes to travel 30-60 jumps in hostile space (or if you have a usefull wormhole), you can team up with others, you can lurk in the shadows, time and schedule your "raid", seek empty systems and a ton of other different things.
But will you actually pvp against someone who could have been a challenge inside an anomally? Will it mater if the system has a similar amount of players (eg 1v1, 2v2)? Will it mater if you actually have proper pvp fit?
No, because you would have rats shooting somebody and pvp will simply not happen.

The point is that ESSes in anomalies do not promote actual pvp activity, and i would personally prefer to have greater payouts for the ratters and no anchoring in anomalies, so i could simply have the chance of blowing something up, instead of playing games of pod-luck that involve rats.

PS to inform our less experienced friends, ESSes which are not in anomalies (and thus for the defender "unsafe") usualy have a fraction of the money, because the defenders share more often, and also get defended more often.

Came expecting some sort of *real* exploit..

Found pirate tears!! (Very satisfying!)

Anyone that is agreeing with OP saying it would make goodfites is lieing. All they really want is the easy isk. Because if anyone came to defend the ESS while they were stealing, they would just burn out, and warp away from the ESS, and deny the fight.

If you really want the ISK, bring a ship good enough to tank the rats. But that won't happen becuase that would mean risking your ship. Which you are unwilling to do.

So next time, grow a pair, bring a ship to tank the rats and loot the ESS, and fight like a man if / when the defense fleet comes. Because thats what you want right?

As it is, if the rats can ward you off, your not even worth undocking for.

Working as intended.

Nothing to see here

But this wasn't your initial complaint.


You said it yourself, you just want to steal ratter isk.

Taking ESSes out of anoms would not, as you claim, promote PvP. All it would do is make it so no one uses ESS. Most ratters aren't going to fight anyway, so why would they bother giving you a free target to steal 20% of their income?

But people cannot understand:

a) that an exploit is an exploit even if it suits their game
b) that discussing something does not equal tears/drama/whatever
c) that pirates having ways around the aforementioned exploit doesn't mean that "everything is ok"

should i just call people inexperienced / biased / stupid and not explain anything?
what help would that be to an actual discussion?





I would prefer to have much fewer ESS to take from, than having so many of them anchored inside anomalies.

As for ratters:
if they cannot read their inteligence channels and share money on time, that is their problem, not mine.
If they cannot notice the neutral/red entering the system chat, that is their problem, not mine
If they cannot read the red text on the same chat, that is their problem, not mine.
If they cannot react within 3.5 mins and prevent me, that is their problem, not mine.
If they are not willing to fight, again that is their problem, not mine.

You want to know my risk?
I risk flying 30-60 gates in hostile space
I risk passing many gate camps
I risk needing to stay next to an object that disrupts me with 100 power for 3.5 mins
I risk spending all that traveling time with the possibility of not finding any ess or having them shared and empty
I risk taking my loot and flying all that course back

Every time i make a mistake, there is a big chance i will loose my ship, my loot and my time.
Who can be blamed when i loose except for myself?

If ratters do-not-want/fail to play the game as they should, that is no excuse that can justify exploiting anomalies to defend their ess.

My suggestions are:
Prevent anchoring of ESS in anomalies
Increase ESS pay out to compensate for the increased risk

even better, pay out should be increase only for the ratters.
i also think that having rats shooting the ess, as some people suggested is a very good alternative idea.

Dude, I am thief myself and ESS in anomalies perfectly suit my game - and are in best interest for all thieves.

Why?

1) If every ceptor could start stealing, EVE would be full of random dudes trying to steal from ESS. You could never retrieve decent amount, because every ESS would be robbed constantly.

2) NPC defence actually makes people less caring about their ESS money - they think it is OK that you approached ESS because they think you cannot do anything anyway because of NPCs, so they do not defend it - and let you steal huge amount of ISK.

3) When they come to defend it, you can expect nice fight with NPCs as wild card and good reward if you win - I once won fight with 2 maledictions vs Navy Vexor, Dramiel and Hawk using NPCs swithing tagets. Then I stole few hundred mil. ISK.

Believe me, the only reason why it is possible to steal amounts like 1 bil. ISK, is just beacause local people think that their ESS is safe due to NPCs guarding it.

Im bumping up the thread as there is still no official reply



There is good logic behind peoples replies, most arguements like yours sound very logical ... but ...
The problem is that this logic is based upon limited knowledge, lack of expirience, or simply bad assumptions.

I have been stealing for months from many different ESSes (currently i have 33 bookmarked), in an area that corresponds to about a third to half of null sec, in various times of the day and with varying freequency (anywhere from 2-3 days to a couple of weeks).

So lets see some examples of what happens in reality and how it is different from theory:

1: CCP adds ESS
2: A group of nullsec ratters is peacefully ratting in their system, and their ess has gathered a bilion of ISK.
3: A pirate comes into the system and steals their billion.
4: Ratters are furious, and decide to take action, they try to fight back and they start sharing the loot more often, at lets say 300m.
5: Their ESS now usually have about 300m and ratters share and defend the ESS.
6: A pirate comes into the system to steals their 300 milion, they fail to react or simply cannot fight him and he takes their 300 milion.
7: Ratters are again furious, they wish to find a solution and they hear from some guy in their alliance that you can stuff their ess inside an anomally and dont need to defend it.
8: Their ESS gathers 300 milion
9: A pirate comes and tries to steal the 300 milion, but he fails and dies
10: Ratters are now confident and let their ESS gather 1 bilion again
11: A better pirate comes with dirty tactics and steals their bilion
12: The Ratters are furious again, and they decide to not just have their ESS in an anomaly, but to share every 300m, defend the ess, and even pay attention to their alliances/coalitions intel channel.

Nowdays, the majority of ess are in anomalies, they get shared more frequently on lower amounts of isk, they get shared on time based on intel channels reports of neuts/hostiles , they get shared upon entry into the system, and they do get defended.
The amounts that can be found at them range anywhere from 2m to 500m, with an average being around 60.
Pirates can still steal from them, but it is definatelly not more profitable than other activities, it requires you to be active in contrast to afkish-ratting in a droneboat or mining, it has a greater degree of risk that most of those activites ... and, most importantly it is not as fun as it used to be when ESSes were not placed inside anomalies.

With my character, i can do exploration, droneboat ratting in a hac/bs and soon marauder, mine with perfect skills, PI, trading.
What bothers me is not the amount of money i make with piracy, but HOW i make those money.

It is the gameplay that gets ruined.
I want ESSes to be what they were supposed to be, and what they were designed to be.
I want to actually have encounters with defenders without rats shooting at someone, i want people to chace me, i want it to be interesting and to have a fair fight from time to time.
If i simply wanted isk without risk or effort, i would be safely ratting in a carrier ... If i wanted only pvp, i wouldnt travel so many jumps away from my home system.

Nah... I think they should roll back the nerf they already placed on ESS when they prevented them from being anchored in worm hole space.



Why should stealing ever be easy?

Neither does your almost uncatchable interceptor, what's the point of this thread?

accidental doublepost

Your problem is that if you disallow the way they are used now (which is pretty much the only way.. every alliance that doesn't pretty much just blanket bans their use) would mean they would never be used.

Introducing another very redundant object to the crowded shelf of **** we never use (to the left of the pile of defender missiles)
If you buff the turnover too much there would be nothing to steal, If its not buffed enough it gets shelved.
If you increase the time to access it then pirates complain.

Without trying to sound like a broken record. Working as intended.
These devices sit in a already precarious state of use and you changes would tip them into room 101.