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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2381 - 2014-10-02 04:00:48 UTC
Tribalist wrote:
What bothers me is the lack of respect CCP shows it's player/ customer base.

To start a DEV Blog where CCP responds top comments with "We'll have to look at that" or "We'll need to consider that" it becomes apparent they gave the actual mechanics very little thought.

What was this Wild Ass Idea Wednesday?
Did you decide to tell your customers, we want to take your investment in our product, your time and money and make it useless?

Your initial jump fatigue numbers as shown in a couple of player given examples, 20 LY jump which is not excessive (does not move you across the galaxy etc..) takes hours to accomplish and over a week before you can return unless you want to take gates back. Eve is a game, it's not a second job. To Paraphrase James Carville - Bill Clintons Campaign Strategist - It's a Game, Stupid.

GENIUS! (That's Sarcasm, I'm pointing it out because after reading the Dev Blog I felt it might be necessary)

Now, to all the Tear collectors, Have a laugh. But it's not about us vs. them. It's about people feeling passionately about a game we all play. It will be a poorer experience for all of us if a large percentage leave.


I read the article in TMC about the "Come to Jesus" moment, and this has the potential for that in two very different ways.
#1. CCP creates a new way to play, possibly having Jump Drive Spool Down timers (5 minutes to a max of 10 Minutes) and who knows, possibly even letting Caps jump through Null and Low Sec gates.
#2. Customers realize that CCP as a company has no respect for their time or money invested into CCP's product and act accordingly. For me that would be inactivating my accounts until I feel that the game is something I want to play again.

The majority of the Posts in this thread demonstrate a passion and a commitment to this game, and the reaction displayed is one of anger, outrage and hurt because we the average EVE player feels invested in the game.

Please CCP Fix the game, but don't break it or disrespect us while doing it.


Maybe stop owing half of the galaxy and find fights closer to home then.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2382 - 2014-10-02 04:01:19 UTC
Every compliant about Null has been about power projection or stagnation. Seems like this would fix both in one swoop. Larger groups and caps can't be anywhere within minutes and gate to gate would cause more fights on gates and that means more content. More ships moving more slowly through space means more chances for screw ups, ganks, gate camps and well laid traps.

Small groups can move in and take systems because moving across the universe will now take time and would mean that other parts of space are undefended. Suicide jumping is taking it on the chin, as it should because it is a work around to these mechanic changes. This change is a step in the right direction and it should shake things up. The stats are not set in stone and can be changed so if they are too lax or too strict then they will be revisited.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Northern Coalition.
#2383 - 2014-10-02 04:01:36 UTC
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!








BrokenBC
House Aratus
Goonswarm Federation
#2384 - 2014-10-02 04:02:18 UTC
Tribalist wrote:
What bothers me is the lack of respect CCP shows it's player/ customer base.

To start a DEV Blog where CCP responds top comments with "We'll have to look at that" or "We'll need to consider that" it becomes apparent they gave the actual mechanics very little thought.

What was this Wild Ass Idea Wednesday?
Did you decide to tell your customers, we want to take your investment in our product, your time and money and make it useless?

Your initial jump fatigue numbers as shown in a couple of player given examples, 20 LY jump which is not excessive (does not move you across the galaxy etc..) takes hours to accomplish and over a week before you can return unless you want to take gates back. Eve is a game, it's not a second job. To Paraphrase James Carville - Bill Clintons Campaign Strategist - It's a Game, Stupid.

GENIUS! (That's Sarcasm, I'm pointing it out because after reading the Dev Blog I felt it might be necessary)

Now, to all the Tear collectors, Have a laugh. But it's not about us vs. them. It's about people feeling passionately about a game we all play. It will be a poorer experience for all of us if a large percentage leave.


I read the article in TMC about the "Come to Jesus" moment, and this has the potential for that in two very different ways.
#1. CCP creates a new way to play, possibly having Jump Drive Spool Down timers (5 minutes to a max of 10 Minutes) and who knows, possibly even letting Caps jump through Null and Low Sec gates.
#2. Customers realize that CCP as a company has no respect for their time or money invested into CCP's product and act accordingly. For me that would be inactivating my accounts until I feel that the game is something I want to play again.

The majority of the Posts in this thread demonstrate a passion and a commitment to this game, and the reaction displayed is one of anger, outrage and hurt because we the average EVE player feels invested in the game.

Please CCP Fix the game, but don't break it or disrespect us while doing it.


Great post Yo.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2385 - 2014-10-02 04:03:38 UTC
Kah'Roor wrote:
The point is to open up local production. Just saying.


If you lived in null you would know why local production without importing those materials that are very rare in nullsec is completely impossible - as in, basic minerals found in almost every item are nearly absent from all of 0.0. They need to make local production in 0.0 possible about 1 year before making transport impossible*.


* - transport is still possible if you live within 10-20ly of empire. I live something around 50 from empire, which requires 28 cynos to reach from the nearest empire system if jf are limited to 5ly, and doing so only through station systems is impossible.
Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2386 - 2014-10-02 04:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Edwin Wyatt
Hey CCP,

After having discussion with some of my alliances members I’ve got a few suggestions for you to consider.

POS jump bridges.
Already have inherited risks from past changes with only allowing a single bridge per system.
-Will limit ability to react to small fleet engagements.
-Dont remove fatigue just reduce based on ownership of space or module.


Black Ops. The changes limits their abilities, even their very role. Black Ops should be 99% reduced in fatigue including the portal with the following changes.
-Covert cyno should have a reverse counter of 30 - 60 seconds before opening, this gives defender an option to escape or destroy the attacker. Still allows free movement without being limited by fatigue but no more continuous hot drops.

Death Cloning, / Cyno Generation
I would recommend not making the suggest change to death cloning but instead add cyno fatigue which increase the amount of fuel require to generate a cyno in short periods of time. If you really want to open continuos cynos it will cost you more and maybe even require a larger ship to generate adding more risk.

Thanks for reading,

Edwin
BrokenBC
House Aratus
Goonswarm Federation
#2387 - 2014-10-02 04:05:01 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!










That is the game play YOU want. Not me I want giant fights with big ships and lots of people. I want long drawn out wars not more little ity bity border skirmishes. That dose not interest me in the least.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2388 - 2014-10-02 04:06:33 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Without reading 120 pages of thread, and having read the blog, will there be skill adjustments for JDC / JDO? Because there's no way on earth that the current training times for those skills equate to the benefit that they give, and from where I'm sitting, I might as well just abandon that account that the hauler is training up on.


no the blog and responces say 5ly MAX with skills

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2389 - 2014-10-02 04:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Please ccp think about adding a new Jump Freighter that has a big Ship Maintenance Array instead of a cargo bay.

As a smaller corp I typically use my carrier for logistics purpose to transport assembled and fitted ships. I fully support the new changes but feel that without replacing the logistics use of carriers its going to severely hurt my play style.

Though if you added a new Jump Freighter that had a SMA this would help me maintain my nomadic ways.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Roman Lynch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2390 - 2014-10-02 04:08:53 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
You have to change your mind sets....

you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

PURE GOLD!!!!










You are kinda missing the point. You can't supply half of null sec right now with the range ships have to be able to jump as it is. If you decrease it to 5ly, you wont be able to do it at all

3ppt---> Saminer would be 13 jumps at 5 ly
That would mean in order to move anything to or from 3ppt, you would have to either own 13 systems, or be blue to 12 other alliances, or not live there at all
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2391 - 2014-10-02 04:09:21 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
100+ pages in and I am NOT going to read every post.

Thoughts:

This totally opens up the road for some new skills/mods. Off the top of my head:

Skills - should only be obtainable through Pirate LP stores (or concord?)
  • Psychomotor hardening - 10% per level reduction in jump cooldown timer (add in some Serpentis Lore about how their scientists figured something out)

  • Psychomotor synchronization - 10% per level reduction in jump fatigue factor following a jump (add in some Sansha's lore about how their scientists figured something fancy out)

  • Advanced Jump Drive Calibration - Skill at managing the accumulated effects of multiple jumps over a short period of time. Places a cap on the maximum total amount of time to fully recover from a series of jumps. At Level 1 the maximum time is capped at 30 days, level 2: 18 days, level 3: 11 days, Level 4, 6 days, level 5: 4 days (add in Guristas Lore here)

  • Advanced Jump Portal Generation - skill to use the Capital Jump Portal Reinforcement Array module. 2% per level reduction in jump fatigue factor for fleet members that use your jump portal (add in Angel's lore here)

  • Some Leadership Skills as well:
  • Jump Drive Engineering Management - 2% per level reduction in jump fatigue factor following a jump

  • Rigs:
  • Jump Drive Harmonizer I and II - 10/15% increased max jump distance at the expense of increased cooldown timer (BPC's drop in WH low sec only)

  • Mods:
    External Jump Calibration Matrix -
    Increases the max range of jump capable ships by siphoning from the ships capacitor pool.
    Ranges from +3 (Meta 0) to +5 (Meta 5) to +7 (Meta 12) LY with total capacitor capacity reduced 35% and regen increased 10%

    Capital Jump Portal Reinforcement Array
    Module designed to reduce the fatigue factor of ships in fleet that travel through a portal generated by the ship (High Slot module, must be active to work [similar to Drone Control Links])

    Warfare Links (fittable only by Titans/SC/Carrier), as well as a mindlink
    Capital Jump Logistics Reconfiguration I and II - Further reduces the fatigue factor of ships Jumping through a Portal (max 15% reduction)
    Capital Jump Logistics Hastener I and II - Reduced cooldown (minimum 35 seconds)
    Capital Jump Logistics Computational Matrix I and II - Increased Maximum Jump range (max 20%)


    Overall, I like it. Looking forward to seeing how this plus the upcoming Sov changes will affect the Meta


    This is how I see it all being done down the road. More modules, skills, implants and rigs is the best answer. By adding things like listed above it gives specialized pilots and corps an edge and others something to train for. It is just hard for me to feel sorry for people who have taken advantage of a borked up mechanic and rely on it to harvest tears or keep the status quo.

    Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

    Dbars Grinding
    Dreddit
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #2392 - 2014-10-02 04:09:34 UTC
    Changes are ok i guess. But 5ly is too harsh. Also you are going to lose a ton of players from this change. this is actually something people quit over. Eve does not have the player base to with stand this. If we had 50K+ people online sure but 20k online? lol rip

    I have more space likes than you. 

    Onictus
    SniggWaffe
    WAFFLES.
    #2393 - 2014-10-02 04:10:22 UTC
    TigerXtrm wrote:
    Onictus wrote:
    DaReaper wrote:


    Put crap up for contracts, and buy it again elsewhere? Not that hard. You have not tried moving an entire corp yourself out of wormholes, no caps, no jump drive, and your 20 other members already bailed on you. Thats hell. Adapt or die. Or better yet, instead of unsubbing as a knee jerk reaction, why don;t you post WHY you think it sucks and how to improve in the idea. The idea is coming but you and other can tweek it to make less shocking.


    Because it doesn't matter once its in a dev blog it IS going live.......come hell or high water.


    The fact that you think this is true, combined with the fact that you don't want things to change if they don't favor you, makes you one subscription EVE Online will not be missing.

    You may deposit your stuff into the nearest grinder and jettison the leftovers into the first black hole you can find.

    Good day, sir.


    Incorrect 4 Active accounts and 7 more that will never be reactivated.....those would be the ones that only come out for wars.

    Because I play eve specifically for block level sov wars, the game is a boring isk grind otherwise.
    afkboss
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #2394 - 2014-10-02 04:10:39 UTC
    Because making something extremely tedius is a great way to nerf :(
    Kun'ii Zenya
    Patriotic Tendencies
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2395 - 2014-10-02 04:10:46 UTC
    MeBiatch wrote:
    So deep space logistics will go from a chore done by a dedicated few to keep 0.0 alliances going to become strategic ops carried (that will become content generators) out by many to keep 0.0 alliances going.


    Probably. To be quite honest the logistics teams will have to grow in two ways.

    1. More JF alts.
    2. More players with multiple accounts.

    Those two will help get around the jump fatigue mechanic as well as the reduced jump range. Logistics will likely become a thing in terms of pap links (if you are in the CFC) and not sure how non-CFC groups will do it, but that role wont be done anymore by people who like playing space trucker online.

    BTW I was trying to do the math for a JF pilot/player who had to move 16 LY and had to make 2 trips:

    1 trip in to wherever,
    1 trip out to where the materials are staged,
    1 trip back in--i.e. the second leg.

    Using 1 pilot by the end your jump fatigue will be, assuming I did it right, at 7.6 million. Each trip is 4 jumps so by the end you'd need a cool down in terms of minute of over 144 years!?!?!

    However, using JF alts at each point will drastically cut that down. So logistics will no longer be done by a few guys with no lives will no longer work. Having a JF pilot at each jump point...all 4 of them, will mitigate the fatigue problem.

    Kalissis
    #2396 - 2014-10-02 04:10:50 UTC
    Alp Khan wrote:
    Yogsoloth wrote:
    [quote=Alp Khan]

    I'm sorry, I'm not going to spend hours of my life to simply move subcapitals around. I refuse to spend half a day simply to move minerals and my production goods to and from Jita. This is a game, not a second job.





    This is the point exactly. It'll beprofit company that does not have any other game that generates revenue or any other game that is expected to generate revenue, currently in development.
    [...]
    On a sidenote, I'm looking forward to follow Grayscale's future in the gaming industry with such an impeccable credential under his belt if this takes place. I believe I have met with two-months old newbies in EVE that understood what is taking place in null more than Grayscale ever could.


    Why are you still here if you dont like the way(s) of EVE.
    And I think your indirect threats to Grayscale are in vain, he is the best dev there is, he will be fine EVErywhere!!!
    Kah'Roor
    Hole Punchers
    The Initiative.
    #2397 - 2014-10-02 04:10:55 UTC
    MASSADEATH wrote:
    You have to change your mind sets....

    you wont be flitting across the galaxy to "deploy" anymore like we have been.... we will be engaged in long term local conflicts with border regions... against enemies who have a vested interest in those areas... you will not be able to hold vast areas anymore..thats the whole point...so dont get your knickers in a knot about supplying far off places.... cause the map will change... the mechanics will support what it can support...current areas of control will change....

    YOU WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING IN A LOCAL SENSE


    what happens across eve wont matter...cause your ability to deploy there quickly will be limited...what does matter is working with allies to set up timers and fleets to draw your enemies into "choices"... defend...split fleets....or stay...move....use JFB(jump fatigue bait) ..the possibilities are endless...use gates? or risk more jump fatigue....

    and hopefully it will have a side effect of decentralizing JITA as well....since many tears seem to be coming from haulers who have it easy in the current jump mechanics....

    ohh and if the goons keep unsubbing..we can just walk in soon and take your goodies without any fights :) so keep up the tear hose goonies and CFC... its a wonderful day in eve when the goons on one hand are saying this is going to help us...and on the other hand the players who did not get the memo on how to talk on the forums..are crying they will unsub thier accounts...

    IMO this is a great small alliance win...(alliances that are mostly fixed in position) nomadic alliances of course that are cap heavy will have to come to realize that the galaxy has got much bigger and they will have to narrow their field of operations...

    PURE GOLD!!!!


    Confirm...minus the goon hate but your in Mordus so totally understandable.






    Onictus
    SniggWaffe
    WAFFLES.
    #2398 - 2014-10-02 04:11:36 UTC
    Dbars Grinding wrote:
    Changes are ok i guess. But 5ly is too harsh. Also you are going to lose a ton of players from this change. this is actually something people quit over. Eve does not have the player base to with stand this. If we had 50K+ people online sure but 20k online? lol rip



    18K currently, I haven't seen it pushing much over 28 in forever.
    Alavaria Fera
    Imperial Shipment
    #2399 - 2014-10-02 04:12:05 UTC
    Roman Lynch wrote:
    You are kinda missing the point. You can't supply half of null sec right now with the range ships have to be able to jump as it is. If you decrease it to 5ly, you wont be able to do it at all

    3ppt---> Saminer would be 13 jumps at 5 ly
    That would mean in order to move anything to or from 3ppt, you would have to either own 13 systems, or be blue to 12 other alliances, or not live there at all

    So being blue or massive is the way to go?

    Huh.

    Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

    Sarah Nahrnid
    Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2400 - 2014-10-02 04:12:19 UTC
    MeBiatch wrote:
    Please ccp think about adding a new Jump Freighter that has a big Ship Maintenance Array instead of a cargo bay.

    As a smaller corp I typically use my carrier for logistics purpose to transport assembled and fitted ships. I fully support the new changes but feel that without replacing the logistics use of carriers its going to severely hurt my play style.

    Though if you added a new Jump Freighter that had a SMA this would help me maintain my nomadic ways.


    That's a large part of what my carrier is for. You know, that 1million m3 SMA, which also happens to be full, everytime my carrier moves?

    CCP is ******* sov null not fixing it.

    -6 accounts until this **** is fixed and hopefully fixed by people who actually play in sov null