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Navy Faction Destroyers. Seriously, CCP...
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Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#21 - 2014-09-23 21:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
I've seen Navy BCs present and fighting in LowSec 5 to 1 over Interdictors and probably 3 to one over command ships in the past year. Not to say they're extremely common, but I've sold enough Navy Brutix' from LP to know that there's still quite a market for them.

And yes, Lady Aye, Navy Dessys are notably absent from CCPs standard vision for ship progression, and we're discussing the role they should play. At present, the T1 destroyers are lacking in their intended anti-frigate role due to significant buffs to interceptors and pirate frigates, and 'Dictors are too expensive and too specialized to fill this role.

Ergo, N.Destroyers should be tailored for damage projection against fast frigates kiting at the edge of point range. This necessitates higher base speeds and better tracking.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-09-24 00:25:07 UTC
The tracking could be managed by a number of means other than just a flat bonus. And as such promote the navy destroyer as requiring higher player skills via better flight control and high agility. In other words just clicking orbit at 12k won't be enough to track any better than small guns normally would but give the pilot the tools to out maneuver the inty that does just rely on the game to pilot for them.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#23 - 2014-09-24 02:42:34 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
The tracking could be managed by a number of means other than just a flat bonus. And as such promote the navy destroyer as requiring higher player skills via better flight control and high agility. In other words just clicking orbit at 12k won't be enough to track any better than small guns normally would but give the pilot the tools to out maneuver the inty that does just rely on the game to pilot for them.


I agree with where you're going, for sure, but without that 10%-per level to tracking, Railguns/Arty/Beams would be almost useless. And that's a problem, considering that all Navy Faction ships are limited to two per-skill bonuses and lack a role bonus.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#24 - 2014-09-24 22:15:51 UTC
Looking at the bonuses of T1 Dessys and the faction lineup, here's what I've come up with:

3 of 4 empires focus on turrets, and you only get two per-skill bonuses on navy hulls, so drop the T1 range bonuses in exchange for increased tracking and base speed. Drop to 6 turrets on each with a 5% damage bonus and 12% bonus to tracking. This means the Gallente/Amarr boats keep the exact same turret dps as the Cata/Coercer with 10% additional tracking over the T1s at lvl 5, and can be added to with 3-4 drones for the Gal boat and either drones or a utility highslot for the Amarr's preference for cap warfare. The Minmitar boat only looses one turret and gains some dps in the absence of the two former's benefits.

Loosing the optimal/falloff bonuses makes brawling less attractive and puts an onus on the longer ranged weapons: rails/beams/arty. Each, with the tracking buff, can project damage out to 25-30km orbiting frigates nicely. There should be enough grid/cpu to fit the largest of the long range guns and a decent tank with mwds.

To match, the Caldari boat should be bonused to reliably hit those same Interceptors with rockets out to 25-30 km. Keeping the Corax's 7 launchers but adding to rocket velocity and explosion velocity should do it. I'm not as familiar with missile/rocket stats, so I'll let someone iron that out.

I think this is the best way to fit with CCP's established standards for the design theory in these ships. Any thoughts, comments, or concerns are welcomed.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-09-28 17:31:55 UTC
Fenris Orion wrote:

To match, the Caldari boat should be bonused to reliably hit those same Interceptors with rockets out to 25-30 km. Keeping the Corax's 7 launchers but adding to rocket velocity and explosion velocity should do it. I'm not as familiar with missile/rocket stats, so I'll let someone iron that out.
.


For rockets to hit a 6-7k ms interceptor at 25-30km requires a range of something like 50km.
Which would be amazing, but overpowered against anything that isn't an interceptor.



The best bet would be to double the speed of the rockets so they can travel faster than an interceptor. (Outrunning a rocket should be pretty much impossible.)
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-10-01 02:11:46 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
What is it you want a Navy Destroyer for that a Assault Frigate can't already do?


He wants T2 damage without training anything to level 5.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#27 - 2014-10-01 08:54:03 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
What is it you want a Navy Destroyer for that a Assault Frigate can't already do?


He wants T2 damage without training anything to level 5.


Pretty clearly stated that the idea is to bridge the gap between T1 and T2..... Like every other ship class in the game. And clearly stated that dps isn't the issue, it's more so the issue of speed.

Nobody likes a troll....
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#28 - 2014-10-01 08:56:58 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
Fenris Orion wrote:

To match, the Caldari boat should be bonused to reliably hit those same Interceptors with rockets out to 25-30 km. Keeping the Corax's 7 launchers but adding to rocket velocity and explosion velocity should do it. I'm not as familiar with missile/rocket stats, so I'll let someone iron that out.
.


For rockets to hit a 6-7k ms interceptor at 25-30km requires a range of something like 50km.
Which would be amazing, but overpowered against anything that isn't an interceptor.



The best bet would be to double the speed of the rockets so they can travel faster than an interceptor. (Outrunning a rocket should be pretty much impossible.)


Agreed. Not certain how best to balance rockets to work effectively against interceptors at or just slightly beyond point range, but it needs to be included.
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