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Sinister Crimewatch

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Nevil Oscillator
#1 - 2014-09-26 11:00:39 UTC
I probably don't fully understand the knock on effects to the entire game but if someone does please enlighten this thread.

If Concord can sell war rights why can't it sell kill rights ?
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-09-26 11:01:43 UTC
I would guess this fits into the IGS forum....
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Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#3 - 2014-09-26 11:07:21 UTC
The story goes that CONCORD is bribed to ignore violence against capsuleers from capsuleers.

You can only wardec non-NPC corps.

So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2014-09-26 11:10:54 UTC
Because somewhere in code there's something like this:

WarDec CreateWarDec(Corporation offender, Corporation defender)
{
...
}

Invalid signature format
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-09-26 11:21:31 UTC
claim statement: wardecs are literally killrights for ISK, affecting groups of players, rather than individuals. allowing individual kill rights for ISK would be discrimination.

proposal: this system is obtusely one-way, and I think what would be interesting is a way to buy killright immunity from a group, for ISK. To ensure it is just as chronologically dependent as wardecs, the targeted group should be locked out from making wardecs as long as the immunity fee is paid, with the only diplomatic solution being an immunity buyout that has to be accepted by the immune party. only then can a wardec commence.

summary: corporation/alliance-specific wardec immunity through concord, with a "let us wardec you plz" ISK negotiation option.

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Matius Udan
Padecains Exploration and Recon Inc
#6 - 2014-09-26 11:22:21 UTC
There are ways to avoid a war dec but you cant avoid a kill right in the same way - they are different things and should be treated differently.
Although buying a kill right would be interesting as it would overpower suicide ganking - well it wouldnt be called suicide ganking anymore - just Hi Sec safe ganking - dps would no longer matter as much because you can shoot as long as the kill right lasts.
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-09-26 11:23:58 UTC
also, like wardecs, successive immunity rights against a group become more and more expensive based on the existing number of immunity rights that have been purchased against them.

CCP ready go

Rainf1337 on Twitch
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-09-26 11:25:11 UTC
Rain6635 wrote:
claim statement: wardecs are literally killrights for ISK, affecting groups of players, rather than individuals. allowing individual kill rights for ISK would be discrimination.

proposal: this system is obtusely one-way, and I think what would be interesting is a way to buy killright immunity from a group, for ISK. To ensure it is just as chronologically dependent as wardecs, the targeted group should be locked out from making wardecs as long as the immunity fee is paid, with the only diplomatic solution being an immunity buyout that has to be accepted by the immune party. only then can a wardec commence.

summary: corporation/alliance-specific wardec immunity through concord, with a "let us wardec you plz" ISK negotiation option.

The TL.DR of this is CCP Tuxfords...

When you enter New Eden you are at war with everyone ...
... and have to declare PEACE!

I still believe that's a good way to go ........
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Nevil Oscillator
#9 - 2014-09-26 11:25:39 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:


So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.



That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side.
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-26 11:26:21 UTC
basically yes, a mechanic that amounts to 'don't let them taze me bro'

Rainf1337 on Twitch
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-09-26 11:27:30 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Yarda Black wrote:


So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.



That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side.


Simple, gank him, trick him into a LE, what ever....

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Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-09-26 11:30:10 UTC
yeah. individual killrights for ISK is pretty much bold-faced griefing.

Rainf1337 on Twitch
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2014-09-26 11:31:58 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Yarda Black wrote:


So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.



That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side.

Individual kill rights are generated in highsec by unlawful aggression and can be made available for whatever price the holder places upon it.

However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright.

Someone proposed a while back that these be made searchable through the bounty office, which imo is a great idea.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#14 - 2014-09-26 11:44:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Yarda Black wrote:


So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.



That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side.

Individual kill rights are generated in highsec by unlawful aggression and can be made available for whatever price the holder places upon it.

However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright.

Someone proposed a while back that these be made searchable through the bounty office, which imo is a great idea.


This is the correct answer.

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Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#15 - 2014-09-26 11:46:28 UTC
H-sec has mechanics. And rules. Lots of them. I dont like that. So I stay away.

If you want to kill a single dude, then do the same and move away from all those restrictions.
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-09-26 11:48:43 UTC
Nevil, what J'Poll is saying is you can already kill someone if you're willing to spend ISK. there is no protection from an overwhelming amount of damage that can kill a ship. for one one ship to chew on another ship long enough to kill it, in highsec, it has to be done legally, with something like what you're asking about. but you can also do it illegally with a handful of characters.

If CCP allowed you to kill someone legally (with something like an individual killright), they would be condoning something that is basically [already] griefing ...if you do it repeatedly. keeping it the way it is allows CCP to promote killing each other, while maintaining a clear conscience. (after all, they ban people for griefing).

You need to accept the fact that your ship can be destroyed if you are in space. The best thing is to just appreciate the lol factor if someone decides to go out of their way to pew you. "let it go, let it go."

You'll see people say "don't fly what you can't afford to lose." and it's basically that. You're actually [already] in danger, and a focused, personal killright would be redundant.

Rainf1337 on Twitch
Nevil Oscillator
#17 - 2014-09-26 11:48:58 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright.



There don't have to be any criminals or people who have hurt you in a corp before you are allowed to war-dec it.
Seeing as it might be a completely innocent target, Concord could inform them that someone has bought a kill right
The price could vary for reasons (Corp, Security Status, Faction or whatever)
Possibly The target could pay for the kill right to be removed.. lol three times the price
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-09-26 12:02:03 UTC
it would be better to not tip them off. the concept of forcibly, illegally killing someone will become clear to you, eventually.

Rainf1337 on Twitch
Nevil Oscillator
#19 - 2014-09-26 12:04:04 UTC
Rain6635 wrote:
but you can also do it illegally with a handful of characters.




You can but are you telling me gankers are after someone specific ?, from what I've seen in high sec they are looking for cargo ships on autopilot and mining ships with sod all tank so they can lose a ship that doesn't cost anything.
Rain6635
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-09-26 12:10:30 UTC
normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post.

Rainf1337 on Twitch
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