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Why EvE subscription is low (A newbro perspective)
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R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#101 - 2014-09-25 18:13:25 UTC
we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!
there is no better way to learn in eve than trial and error, you learn from your mistakes. do something stupid... try not to do it again!
u don't learn pvp by jumping in your most expensive ship and head to old man star expecting to wipe the floor with everyone. U hop in a rifter and pray u get to actually shoot ur guns before u go pop.. if u do however get ur shiny ship out plz make your way to Deklein
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2014-09-25 18:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
It is a problem, but in a way it's just like any other game... You don't expect to be handed the legendary end game equipment and items from the very beginning... You need to work hard for it, and in EVE working hard exists in 2 forms: Isk and Patience.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2014-09-25 18:53:10 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
It's not the game's fault- and it's not CCPs fault- The base of my frustration is with the cold playerbase- as I've observed in this thread alone- people just don't care about the experience a new player has- They don't care if they just blapped a person who was bright eyed and new to the game in their very first T1 destroyer that took them a week to save the 1 million isk to save for, they don't care if new players are having fun- No, not all players have this mindset, but there appears to be a very outspoken few who simply, don't care- and go further to gloat at the discomfort of new players.

YES I truly am a very new and very fresh player, under 1.5million SP- The reason I know about the things I've been writing about? Because A) The first corp I joined got war dec'd by Marmite and I wasn't left with any explination- so I had to google it for myself.. and B) I'm in prominent Sov Space alliance now with their own wikis and guides along with new player training.


All of your perceived issues are a result of your mindset & belief that people should go out of their way to help you just in case you're some random new guy that is actually prepared to listen & take advice as opposed to what normally happens.




There's a difference between going "out of your way" to help some new person and not scamming them, ganking them, trolling them, and just being generally mean to them for no good reason.


New players already have gank protection in rookie systems and they have nothing worth scamming. Why should people go out of their way to cater to what in most cases is just an alt?

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Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2014-09-25 18:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
Mallak Azaria wrote:

New players already have gank protection in rookie systems and they have nothing worth scamming. Why should people go out of their way to cater to what in most cases is just an alt?


SEE! That's it, right there "Most cases is just an alt" That digs at the heart of my concern- old players are making alts faster than new players are subscribing... Is that not seen as an issue?



R3DRUM wrote:
we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!
there is no better way to learn in eve than trial and error, you learn from your mistakes. do something stupid... try not to do it again!
u don't learn pvp by jumping in your most expensive ship and head to old man star expecting to wipe the floor with everyone. U hop in a rifter and pray u get to actually shoot ur guns before u go pop.. if u do however get ur shiny ship out plz make your way to Deklein




A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target... Today I learned something new.
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-09-25 18:58:15 UTC
I love the part where new player retention is an admitted issue for the game that the devs are actively working on addressing, and yet whenever a new player voices his or her problems with the new player experience they just get shouted down by most of the player base. Why wouldn't we want to listen and take their concerns seriously so we can have more people to shoot at down the road?

For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.

R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#106 - 2014-09-25 19:03:37 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

New players already have gank protection in rookie systems and they have nothing worth scamming. Why should people go out of their way to cater to what in most cases is just an alt?


SEE! That's it, right there "Most cases is just an alt" That digs at the heart of my concern- old players are making alts faster than new players are subscribing... Is that not seen as an issue?



R3DRUM wrote:
we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!
there is no better way to learn in eve than trial and error, you learn from your mistakes. do something stupid... try not to do it again!
u don't learn pvp by jumping in your most expensive ship and head to old man star expecting to wipe the floor with everyone. U hop in a rifter and pray u get to actually shoot ur guns before u go pop.. if u do however get ur shiny ship out plz make your way to Deklein




A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target... Today I learned something new.
plz tell me were i said A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target????
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#107 - 2014-09-25 19:05:02 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:
For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.
Anyone can do worthwhile things pretty much from the first day.
If that's how you played, it's a wonder that you actually stayed.


In 90% of all cases, the issue isn't the NPE ... the issue is the players themselves.

Do we want a game that makes it easy enough for a lot of people to grasp it ...
... or do we want EVE ONLINE?

I prefer the latter.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#108 - 2014-09-25 19:07:55 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:
yet whenever a new player voices his or her problems with the new player experience they just get shouted down by most of the player base
OP isn't talking about the NPE, he's talking about how terrible it is that he has to learn to play before he will stop dying over and over.

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Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2014-09-25 19:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
R3DRUM wrote:
plz tell me were i said A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target????


"we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!" - When you said "we" I thought you were referring to EvE players in general- I'm not upset that I lost a $1mil heron- I was slightly annoyed however that a player that had been playing for 5 years had nothing better to do than to chase me 6 jumps to take me out.
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#110 - 2014-09-25 19:20:14 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
R3DRUM wrote:
plz tell me were i said A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target????


"we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!" - When you said "we" I thought you were referring to EvE players in general- I'm not upset that I lost a $1mil heron- I was slightly annoyed however that a player that had been playing for 5 years had nothing better to do than to chase me 6 jumps to take me out.
Sorry but ... how exactly did you die?
How do you know he chased you?
Why didn't you dock, if you knew?

I probably missed a piece of information in this thread.
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R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#111 - 2014-09-25 19:21:31 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
R3DRUM wrote:
plz tell me were i said A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target????


"we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!" - When you said "we" I thought you were referring to EvE players in general- I'm not upset that I lost a $1mil heron- I was slightly annoyed however that a player that had been playing for 5 years had nothing better to do than to chase me 6 jumps to take me out.

well if u were in someones null sec they do have to protect there turf. we cant just let anyone go in our space taking our loot
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2014-09-25 19:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
R3DRUM wrote:
plz tell me were i said A heron with 0 weapons worth $1,000,000 is is a juicy target????


"we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!we don't pick on new players. we do however go after juicy targets!" - When you said "we" I thought you were referring to EvE players in general- I'm not upset that I lost a $1mil heron- I was slightly annoyed however that a player that had been playing for 5 years had nothing better to do than to chase me 6 jumps to take me out.
Sorry but ... how exactly did you die?
How do you know he chased you?
Why didn't you dock, if you knew?

I probably missed a piece of information in this thread.



I'm not saying I couldn't have avoided the death- I probably could have if I had the thing that some players have called.. experience. And I know he purposefully hunted me down because he was in every single system I was in before he finally pinpointed my warp to a planet's moon. This still isn't about me- But I'm going through the same thing that I'm sure drives many new players away- I am just lucky enough to have an excellent alliance at my back.
R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#113 - 2014-09-25 19:35:35 UTC
i normally sit in a rapier with a drag bubble 70km off gate and try to kill anyone that gets in my trap i don't care who u are or what ur flying if ur in our space i will protect it . i was talking about high sec and ganking when i said juicy targets sry for the confusion
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-09-25 19:46:14 UTC
Unfortunately, territoriality (even in low) and player agresivity is not something that can be changed that easily, without discrete systems and gates the game would fall apart (just think about "general chat" as the first thing :) ), and the lack of penalty for killing so you can kill anyone you can has probably been chosen on purpose (bu we do seem to start lacking systems, cause this needs players to be spread out, like in every free for all pvp game, ghost town outside safe zones).
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2014-09-25 20:17:44 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.
Anyone can do worthwhile things pretty much from the first day.



Not solo, and there should be room for that for new players, just as there is for players with more SP.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-09-25 20:27:19 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.
Anyone can do worthwhile things pretty much from the first day.



Not solo, and there should be room for that for new players, just as there is for players with more SP.


Why should you be able to manage a 100-tower reaction farm on day 3 of playing when everyone else had to wait months or years?

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Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#117 - 2014-09-25 20:30:35 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.
Anyone can do worthwhile things pretty much from the first day.



Not solo, and there should be room for that for new players, just as there is for players with more SP.

Err ... so, you are calling me a liar?

You're clueless about the possibilities. A common thing with people is that they rather talk back
out of their dunning-krueger effect, than simply ASKING about what they might not know.

Hey, if you look up "dunning-krueger effect" it would be a good start.


Anyhow ... stay clueless.
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Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-09-25 20:31:34 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
For myself, if I hadn't been able to o-plex for decent ISK in FW for the first few months while my character trained the basic skills needed to do anything worthwhile, I probably wouldn't have kept going.
Anyone can do worthwhile things pretty much from the first day.



Not solo, and there should be room for that for new players, just as there is for players with more SP.


Why should you be able to manage a 100-tower reaction farm on day 3 of playing when everyone else had to wait months or years?


Hmm, that looks exactly like something I never said.
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-09-25 20:32:52 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:
Hmm, that looks exactly like something I never said.
True.
Mallak ... you're really not helping.

He might be clueless ...
... probably wants to stay clueless ...
... but your comments aren't actually better than his either.
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Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-09-25 21:12:54 UTC
The point is that there is no downside to making new characters more capable on their own to take off the edge of the first couple frustrating months. How that can best be accomplished is up to discussion, but the issue is all the people who won't even have that discussion and try to bully people out of it whenever it comes up. Eve is an ecosystem. In the real world, creatures at the bottom of the food chain don't have a choice about it. But since gamers do get to choose their experiences, for Eve's ecosystem to stay healthy it needs to work to attract new players to be the plankton instead of driving them away.