These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why EvE subscription is low (A newbro perspective)
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#41 - 2014-09-25 13:00:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
If you know where to looks
Newbies don't know where to look. They are newbies. Most EVE players have no interest in telling newbies where to look, only in laughing at them because they did it wrong, asking for their stuff when they leave, and trolling them for the same.

The old "if you can't use your brain you can't play eve snarf snarf" stuff that get's spouted all the time is complete nonsense. At some point you have to look at the system and ask yourself if it's really working well enough. If so many people have trouble gaining traction in EVE, it seems to me the likely problem is EVE, not the players.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-09-25 13:10:36 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Eve is supposed to be hard. All of the things that you listed are legitimate challenges that most new players can be expected to face. But the thing is - that's sort of the idea. It's by design that as soon as your tutorial is finished, you are supposed to be thrust into a cold, harsh universe to succeed or fail by your wits.

All of those bullet points that you mentioned are real challenges that newbros have to learn to deal with, as the developers intended. And all of them can be avoided, overcome, or exploited by clever newbros who educate themselves. You should get comfortable with losing ships, do your homework, look for the hidden opportunities in every apparent crisis, and fly boldly.

That, and also post with your main, and never bring your tears to the forums again.





Tears?! What tears? There are no tears here- only valid reasons that new players get frustrated with the game- I didn't post some "boohoo" story about how I took my last 50mil isk and fitted a drake and proceed to challenge nullsec with it within my first 2 weeks of starting. No, I took the advice of the veteran players, I stick with low value ships, I'm training core skills, I'm NOT a solo player- I'm constantly polling my alliance for adventures.
Prince Kobol
#43 - 2014-09-25 13:12:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you know where to looks
Newbies don't know where to look. They are newbies. Most EVE players have no interest in telling newbies where to look, only in laughing at them because they did it wrong, asking for their stuff when they leave, and trolling them for the same.

The old "if you can't use your brain you can't play eve snarf snarf" stuff that get's spouted all the time is complete nonsense. At some point you have to look at the system and ask yourself if it's really working well enough. If so many people have trouble gaining traction in EVE, it seems to me the likely problem is EVE, not the players.


I don't often agree with Lucas but he does have a point.

Eve is probably one of the most complex MMO's on the market.. heck ever released, of course new players to the game are going to find life difficult when first starting out.

Like Lucas has said, if so many people who try Eve find life difficult to begin with then perhaps the problem is with Eve.

Also it doesn't help that the vast majority of HS corps are run by people who are clueless. I am not having a go at High Sec, just that any idiot can create a corp and then spew utter garbage which really doesn't help with new player retention as I suspect most new players first player corp will be based in High sec.
R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#44 - 2014-09-25 13:19:29 UTC
steep learning curve.
new players come here and get trolled,ganked,scammed right out of the gate.
content and community is not all that great. If eve was a community it would be the ghetto.
space sims are not all that hot. hell last i heard even wow is free now. I think people are done with grinding and moving toward tablets and cellphone games that are quick and easy
Paranoid Loyd
#45 - 2014-09-25 13:22:12 UTC
I call BS you are not new, the wording of your posts are not the words of someone who has been playing for one month.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-09-25 13:25:31 UTC
Really makes me wonder how I managed to play this game with skipping the tutorials completely ...
... oh no wait, I did the first one and decided that it's a bullshit way starting the game.

And I wonder how everyone else who deliberately went solo managed to learn how to play it.

Fact of the matter is that there are people who drop out for a reason ...
... and blaming the NPE for it only makes limited sense ...
... simply because obviously there are enough smart enough people around who didn't drop out.

One has to ask himself what the reason is that some people aren't capable enough.

Learning EVE involves effort.
If people aren't cut for it ... they leave.

Of course we need new players ... but at what cost?

If they can't handle it ... what does it tell about them?

Do we really want these kind of people?

I certainly don't think so.

And I doubt that the OP really is a new player anyway.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Prince Kobol
#47 - 2014-09-25 13:25:35 UTC
The problem as I see it is no matter what CCP does with the NPE, nothing will ever change as the only real way of learning how to play Eve is by playing Eve with other players.

The most important moment of a new players life in Eve is when they choose their first corp. I think this is probably the most important deciding factor on whether a person stays or leaves Eve.



J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-09-25 13:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Lucas Kell wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you know where to looks
Newbies don't know where to look. They are newbies. Most EVE players have no interest in telling newbies where to look, only in laughing at them because they did it wrong, asking for their stuff when they leave, and trolling them for the same.


Now you are talking just BS.

Please, go over to the NCQA forums, see how many old guys like to help new players.

I also wonder if you ever noticed the amount of vets hanging around in the help chats or the community channels that are there to assist new players (basically a help chat without the spam).


Please, before you make any claims, make sure you know your facts as you are now just spamming untrue stuff on the forums.

Yeah...so hard to find, it's only stickied in the special New player part of the forum: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6310&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=307646&find=unread

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Prince Kobol
#49 - 2014-09-25 13:27:00 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Really makes me wonder how I managed to play this game with skipping the tutorials completely ...
... oh no wait, I did the first one and decided that it's a bullshit way starting the game.

And I wonder how everyone else who deliberately went solo managed to learn how to play it.

Fact of the matter is that there are people who drop out for a reason ...
... and blaming the NPE for it only makes limited sense ...
... simply because obviously there are enough smart enough people around who didn't drop out.

One has to ask himself what the reason is that some people aren't capable enough.

Learning EVE involves effort.
If people aren't cut for it ... they leave.

Of course we need new players ... but at what cost?

If they can't handle it ... what does it tell about them?

Do we really want these kind of people?

I certainly don't think so.

And I doubt that the OP really is a new player anyway.


Thanks for making Lucas's point.

I skipped the NPE both tries I tried Eve. The only reason I stuck around after the second attempt was because I got lucky and found a corp with some really good guys.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-09-25 13:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Prince Kobol wrote:

Like Lucas has said, if so many people who try Eve find life difficult to begin with then perhaps the problem is with Eve.


No it means they aren't the target audience that CCP is building their game for.

At best it means that CCP is advertizing the game in the wrong channels.

Quote:
Also it doesn't help that the vast majority of HS corps are run by people who are clueless.


And how is that the games fault, game don't forces you to make your own corp, nor does it force you to join that corp.

btw, null-sec corp have just as bad CEOs.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-09-25 13:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Prince Kobol wrote:
The problem as I see it is no matter what CCP does with the NPE, nothing will ever change as the only real way of learning how to play Eve is by playing Eve with other players.

The most important moment of a new players life in Eve is when they choose their first corp. I think this is probably the most important deciding factor on whether a person stays or leaves Eve.





And gues what, there is a GREAT guide written by a fellow veteran to assist you with that.

Said veteran also made a great guide on what options you have if you want to leave that NPC starter corp.

But it requires that a new player to open a forums, go to the new player section and then click a sticky. If they are too lazy / stupid to do that, that's their fault, not the game. CCP can never patch laziness nor stupidity out of the game.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
R3DRUM
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#52 - 2014-09-25 13:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: R3DRUM
Prince Kobol wrote:
The problem as I see it is no matter what CCP does with the NPE, nothing will ever change as the only real way of learning how to play Eve is by playing Eve with other players.

The most important moment of a new players life in Eve is when they choose their first corp. I think this is probably the most important deciding factor on whether a person stays or leaves Eve.




why yes it might be easier with a group its not necessary
i was actually looking for a nice space sim. I came from star wars galaxies. I went through all the tuts even that cog or wheel one that confused everyone. I soloed for a long while before i joined my first corp eve uni to start to expand my knowledge and get into pvp as i was bored with thew same grind as every mmo. all mmos u get bored with grinding and get into pvp however u have to grind to pvp so its a endless cycle that people get tired of maybe if mmo's made things easier and tried to stop making people play forever it might be more fun and keep people longer.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#53 - 2014-09-25 13:37:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you know where to looks
Newbies don't know where to look. They are newbies. Most EVE players have no interest in telling newbies where to look, only in laughing at them because they did it wrong, asking for their stuff when they leave, and trolling them for the same.

The old "if you can't use your brain you can't play eve snarf snarf" stuff that get's spouted all the time is complete nonsense. At some point you have to look at the system and ask yourself if it's really working well enough. If so many people have trouble gaining traction in EVE, it seems to me the likely problem is EVE, not the players.


Not at all, you're looking at it backwards. The fact that EVE gives so many people 'trouble' is a sign of it working well because the experience is then more valuable to the relative few that can figure things out.

McDonalds has more customers and makes WAY more money than the company that owns Spago, that doesn't make McDonalds food better. And it's not all about money either, even for companies, if it was, Spago would have a Dollar Menu.

Some people (*surreptitiously looks at Lucas Kell*) think EVE should be like McDonalds (catering to everyone in fine lowest common denominator fashion), I think many of us appreciate that it is indeed Spago and thus isn't for everyone (because you're poor and need that Dollar menu).
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-09-25 13:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
It's not the game's fault- and it's not CCPs fault- The base of my frustration is with the cold playerbase- as I've observed in this thread alone- people just don't care about the experience a new player has- They don't care if they just blapped a person who was bright eyed and new to the game in their very first T1 destroyer that took them a week to save the 1 million isk to save for, they don't care if new players are having fun- No, not all players have this mindset, but there appears to be a very outspoken few who simply, don't care- and go further to gloat at the discomfort of new players.

YES I truly am a very new and very fresh player, under 1.5million SP- The reason I know about the things I've been writing about? Because A) The first corp I joined got war dec'd by Marmite and I wasn't left with any explination- so I had to google it for myself.. and B) I'm in prominent Sov Space alliance now with their own wikis and guides along with specialized new player training.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#55 - 2014-09-25 13:42:31 UTC
WTF should I care about your experience of a game? I care about my experience.

Invalid signature format
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-09-25 13:42:45 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
It's not the game's fault- and it's not CCPs fault- The base of my frustration is with the cold playerbase- as I've observed in this thread alone- people just don't care about the experience a new player has- They don't care if they just blapped a person who was bright eyed and new to the game in their very first T1 destroyer that took them a week to save the 1 million isk to save for, they don't care if new players are having fun- No, not all players have this mindset, but there appears to be a very outspoken few who simply, don't care- and go further to gloat at the discomfort of new players.

YES I truly am a very new and very fresh player, under 1.5million SP- The reason I know about the things I've been writing about? Because A) The first corp I joined got war dec'd by Marmite and I wasn't left with any explination- so I had to google it for myself.. and B) I'm in prominent Sov Space alliance now with their own wikis and guides along with new player training.


All of your perceived issues are a result of your mindset & belief that people should go out of their way to help you just in case you're some random new guy that is actually prepared to listen & take advice as opposed to what normally happens.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#57 - 2014-09-25 13:43:29 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
It's not the game's fault- and it's not CCPs fault- The base of my frustration is with the cold playerbase- as I've observed in this thread alone- people just don't care about the experience a new player has- They don't care if they just blapped a person who was bright eyed and new to the game in their very first T1 destroyer that took them a week to save the 1 million isk to save for, they don't care if new players are having fun- No, not all players have this mindset, but there appears to be a very outspoken few who simply, don't care- and go further to gloat at the discomfort of new players.

YES I truly am a very new and very fresh player, under 1.5million SP- The reason I know about the things I've been writing about? Because A) The first corp I joined got war dec'd by Marmite and I wasn't left with any explination- so I had to google it for myself.. and B) I'm in prominent Sov Space alliance now with their own wikis and guides along with new player training.


First week in EVE got ganked and scammed by "helpful" players who were trolling the new player channel. If I hadn't lucked out and also met a mentor same week, who eventually introduced me to other awesome players in the wider community, I probably would have said "This is a game for neckbeard a**holes only" and left before I subbed.

So yes, it is a player mindset issue. The game allows and even encourages types of behaviour that other MMO's might prohibit.

So what would you do about it? How would you improve the NPE such that the conversion rate of trial-to-subscription went up and the playerbase continued to grow? How would you do that without fundamentally changing the very aspects of sandbox gaming that make EVE so awesome?

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Prince Kobol
#58 - 2014-09-25 13:45:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
If you know where to looks
Newbies don't know where to look. They are newbies. Most EVE players have no interest in telling newbies where to look, only in laughing at them because they did it wrong, asking for their stuff when they leave, and trolling them for the same.

The old "if you can't use your brain you can't play eve snarf snarf" stuff that get's spouted all the time is complete nonsense. At some point you have to look at the system and ask yourself if it's really working well enough. If so many people have trouble gaining traction in EVE, it seems to me the likely problem is EVE, not the players.


Not at all, you're looking at it backwards. The fact that EVE gives so many people 'trouble' is a sign of it working well because the experience is then more valuable to the relative few that can figure things out.

McDonalds has more customers and makes WAY more money than the company that owns Spago, that doesn't make McDonalds food better. And it's not all about money either, even for companies, if it was, Spago would have a Dollar Menu.

Some people (*surreptitiously looks at Lucas Kell*) think EVE should be like McDonalds (catering to everyone in fine lowest common denominator fashion), I think many of us appreciate that it is indeed Spago and thus isn't for everyone (because you're poor and need that Dollar menu).



Damn right Eve should not be for everybody to be honest it is an impossible job anyway, however what what we should not do is say **** back to WoW because somebody is having new is having difficulty understanding the game.

Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-09-25 13:46:57 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
It's not the game's fault- and it's not CCPs fault- The base of my frustration is with the cold playerbase- as I've observed in this thread alone- people just don't care about the experience a new player has- They don't care if they just blapped a person who was bright eyed and new to the game in their very first T1 destroyer that took them a week to save the 1 million isk to save for, they don't care if new players are having fun- No, not all players have this mindset, but there appears to be a very outspoken few who simply, don't care- and go further to gloat at the discomfort of new players.

YES I truly am a very new and very fresh player, under 1.5million SP- The reason I know about the things I've been writing about? Because A) The first corp I joined got war dec'd by Marmite and I wasn't left with any explination- so I had to google it for myself.. and B) I'm in prominent Sov Space alliance now with their own wikis and guides along with new player training.


All of your perceived issues are a result of your mindset & belief that people should go out of their way to help you just in case you're some random new guy that is actually prepared to listen & take advice as opposed to what normally happens.




There's a difference between going "out of your way" to help some new person and not scamming them, ganking them, trolling them, and just being generally mean to them for no good reason.
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#60 - 2014-09-25 13:52:46 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:


There's a difference between going "out of your way" to help some new person and not scamming them, ganking them, trolling them, and just being generally mean to them for no good reason.



I understand where you are coming from, but these are all part of the game. If you come expecting something else, one could argue that you are looking for a different game.

Perhaps more could be done to educate new players on these aspects from the start, maybe even as part of the tutorial. Perhaps that would improve the NPE without nerfing the sandbox. Just a thought.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson