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[Oceanus] Burner Missions - Round 2

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CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-09-23 11:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Greetings pilots,

The four new burner missions, introduced by CCP Fozzie in this dev blog are now live on Singularity!

To allow you lovely folks to try them out we will once again be doing two things:

- Temporarily removing all other missions from the appropriate mission pools, so that only the new missions will be offered.
- Running the movemebot to also provide standings when requested.

How to receive perfect standings from the movebot
- Join the channel moveme
- Say 'standings' in channel
- ????
- Profit!
(Note: You may need to relog to see the standing in client)

Please report any bugs found in this thread, which I will update with any known bugs as time goes on.

Known Issues
- Vengeance and Hawk currently orbit outside the range of their rockets.
- Burner NPCs do not drop any loot.

Again, please be aware that the mission rewards on Singularity are not representative of what they will ultimately be once they've been on TQ for a while (Mission isk and lp rewards use a system that autocalculates them based on a number of factors, including how quickly people complete the mission on average and how often they decline it)

Also please note that the burner missions are still in the process of being balanced, so their stats may not fully represent their final form and may be changed up until Oceanus' release.

Many thanks and happy testing!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-09-23 11:14:53 UTC
Should be interesting to try again.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-09-23 11:47:31 UTC
More shiny ships to get lost to them? let's see.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Thorondir 42
Krittapong
#4 - 2014-09-23 11:53:13 UTC
The Vengeance seems a little bit bugged .. orbits at 14km and does not have that range for her rockets Big smile
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-09-23 12:38:46 UTC
Thorondir 42 wrote:
The Vengeance seems a little bit bugged .. orbits at 14km and does not have that range for her rockets Big smile


Shhhht ! It's called "air tanking"
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-09-23 13:36:21 UTC
The Hawk is acting strange, it seems as long as you don't shoot it doesn't shoot either.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Thorondir 42
Krittapong
#7 - 2014-09-23 13:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorondir 42
"Air tanking" #2: The enyo can easily be kited at 15km with a Harpy

[Harpy, Burner Enyo ]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Target Painter II

150mm Railgun II
150mm Railgun II
[Empty High slot]
150mm Railgun II
150mm Railgun II

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

EDIT: they feel way easier than the other burner missions. Allthough they do high damage (90/90 resists and a smal t2 rep on an enyo barely can keep up against the enyo), they should be able to be defeated by all caldari/gallente assault frigs (because of their resists). (Enyo, harpy do work - others i did not test so far)
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-09-23 14:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lebowski
Thanks for the feedback so far, I've updated the op with the issues we are currently aware of. A first balance pass should be taking place in the next couple of days, along with fixes for any issues found, with additional balancing taking place up until release.

Jori McKie wrote:
The Hawk is acting strange, it seems as long as you don't shoot it doesn't shoot either.
I'm not able to reproduce this issue locally, could you please submit a bug report with more details of the exact situation this happened in (and whether its has happened multiple times).

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

AK Wilson
Material School
#9 - 2014-09-23 14:23:45 UTC
All the missions I've been offered are 6-7 systems away. Not sure if this is intentional but I doubt it will be a popular feature if it is.
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#10 - 2014-09-23 14:30:23 UTC
The Vengeance and Hawk I've fought seem to have about 5km missile range. They also don't scram, as the description says, but point. They also don't seem to have a propmod of any description, making the things rather easy.

I do very much applaud the ability to take care of the source of their tank first, though. Especially if the above things are fixed (assuming they weren't intended as such, but at least the scram part), I think they'll be very enjoyable to do.
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#11 - 2014-09-23 15:32:45 UTC
These seem to be a lot easier than the pirate burners overall. The Hawk and Vengeance NPCs have very low dps - you can comfortably tank them on a single rep in a daredevil with a damage control and two hardeners of the appropriate type. The Jaguar and Enyo NPCs have much more dps but are very easy to tank if you hold them at 10 km or so while picking off their logistics. I like those two more than any of the other burners, though, because with the rail daredevil fit I was using it was actually necessary to do a bit of manual flying to complete the mission - I had to hold the dps NPC at sufficient range to avoid its firepower while keeping the logistics frigates in range and at low transversal. Not super challenging but reasonably engaging by Eve's pve standards.

Also, as others have noted, the NPCs are described as having scrams but don't shut off player MWDs.

Maybe the burners and their support should drop some tags in addition to or in lieu of bounties?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#12 - 2014-09-23 15:45:36 UTC
The attributes of these NPCs on SISI are actually very far away from the next pass on them. Expect major changes to them very soon.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-09-23 18:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
@CCP Lebowski
It seems that is the issue "about 5km missile range", so i thought they don't shoot at all.
NearNihil wrote:
The Vengeance and Hawk I've fought seem to have about 5km missile range. They also don't scram, as the description says, but point. They also don't seem to have a propmod of any description, making the things rather easy.



Skyler Hawk wrote:
These seem to be a lot easier than the pirate burners overall. The Hawk and Vengeance NPCs have very low dps - you can comfortably tank them on a single rep in a daredevil with a damage control and two hardeners of the appropriate type. The Jaguar and Enyo NPCs have much more dps but are very easy to tank if you hold them at 10 km or so while picking off their logistics. I like those two more than any of the other burners, though, because with the rail daredevil fit I was using it was actually necessary to do a bit of manual flying to complete the mission - I had to hold the dps NPC at sufficient range to avoid its firepower while keeping the logistics frigates in range and at low transversal. Not super challenging but reasonably engaging by Eve's pve standards.

Also, as others have noted, the NPCs are described as having scrams but don't shut off player MWDs.

I had the same experience like Skyler Hawk. Vs Jaguar and Enjo kiting is a good idea and they are little more challenging although you can brawl them down in a Vengeance or Enyo.

@Fozzie, do the Assault Burner have their T2 resistance profile? I could be mistaken but it seems that the Burner Enyo has not its T2 resistance profile, i killed it much faster than the Burner Hawk and both have similiar profiles.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Thorondir 42
Krittapong
#14 - 2014-09-23 18:54:01 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:

@Fozzie, do the Assault Burner have their T2 resistance profile? I could be mistaken but it seems that the Burner Enyo has not its T2 resistance profile, i killed it much faster than the Burner Hawk and both have similiar profiles.


They currently have different profiles: Current damage from light missiles from a hawk (kinetic damage bonus already removed) are: (EM/Exp/Kin/Ther damage per 1 missile)

enyo: (Armor) 46/14/34/59 - adds: 65/117/85/84

Hawk: (Shield) 39/39/37/16 - adds: 131/65/79/105

Jaguar: (Shield) 57/52/45/46 - adds: 131/65/78/95

Vengeance: (Armor) 47/14/34/60 - adds: 66/105/98/85

As their speed is currently very low, i dont think speed has an effect. neither do i think other effects like signature radius do attribute for the 1/3 less damage the hawk currently takes (i have max missile skills/lvl 5 assault frig)
Per Ole
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-09-24 11:15:38 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The attributes of these NPCs on SISI are actually very far away from the next pass on them. Expect major changes to them very soon.


Sweet. Looking forward to testing them out after the next change on sisi :)

I must admit I was very sceptical to burner missions to begin with, however after they've been here a while and the rewards are now in-line with other lvl 4s, I love them. Will be fun to try out my own fits versus the empire burners.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2014-09-24 11:20:47 UTC
We plan to update SISI today with a new set of stats. These are much closer to the final goal, although I have a sneaking suspicion they might be a tad bit too hard with these stats. We'll be continuing to tweak them as we playtest more internally and hear from you all.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#17 - 2014-09-24 11:38:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We plan to update SISI today with a new set of stats. These are much closer to the final goal, although I have a sneaking suspicion they might be a tad bit too hard with these stats. We'll be continuing to tweak them as we playtest more internally and hear from you all.

Can you seed faction/deadspace items while these things are being tested? It's not particularly realistic to be restricted to meta1-4 and T2 items when you're looking at pve setups.
Aegea Siannodel
Trantor Mentalics
#18 - 2014-09-24 13:38:11 UTC
Skyler Hawk wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We plan to update SISI today with a new set of stats. These are much closer to the final goal, although I have a sneaking suspicion they might be a tad bit too hard with these stats. We'll be continuing to tweak them as we playtest more internally and hear from you all.

Can you seed faction/deadspace items while these things are being tested? It's not particularly realistic to be restricted to meta1-4 and T2 items when you're looking at pve setups.

if they can't be reasonably beaten with t2 and meta 4 they are over tuned and should be turned down a bit.
Nicky Duel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-09-24 15:59:59 UTC
How about leaving the single target burner missions in the pool, so that we can continue working on fittings for those?
CarnegieSteel
Minmatar War Orphans Fund
#20 - 2014-09-24 18:14:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We plan to update SISI today with a new set of stats. These are much closer to the final goal, although I have a sneaking suspicion they might be a tad bit too hard with these stats. We'll be continuing to tweak them as we playtest more internally and hear from you all.


What is your goal for # of players to do the mission?
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