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Dodging Wardecs

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Absolutely Not Analt
Carebears on Fire
#1281 - 2014-09-21 15:13:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

What I am not for is people crying because they use a valid game mechanic to avoid the wardec.



It's not a valid game mechanic. The dev blog makes that pretty obvious.

Right now it's being used to bypass the surrender mechanic since dec dodging is free and instant. Since it's being used to bypass an intended mechanic, that pretty clearly makes it an exploit.


Then petition it and see if CCP agrees with you. If they don't then, regardless of your personal opinion, it's not an exploit. If they do, they'll patch it. It really is that simple.

Eve is a multi player game. And you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#1282 - 2014-09-21 15:56:54 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2233376#post2233376

The loop hole DecShield used doesn't even compare to the current mechanics used today.

There was a comment made (don't know how true) about CCP wanting wardec's to be something people did to serve a purpose. That it come with risks that must be taken into consideration and weighed against the object to see if it's even worth it. I guess that "risk" that must be taken into consideration is dodging which ultimately results in wasted isk spent on the war dec.

The system was changed to what it is now. All-in-all working as intended.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1283 - 2014-09-21 16:41:08 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs


Gotta be the drop and reform corp and declare 30-1 victory. Nothing pisses em off more!



My favourite is play something else other than EVE.

Thought I'd explain why, it comes down to the employment record, I prefer to keep mine intact, rather than in and out all the time.

However, if there was no employment record I'd opt for drop and reform.





Only four reasons I can think of why you would war-dec

1) You know that you won't lose.

2) To disrupt their game play.

3) You know that you won't lose and to disrupt their game play.

4) Just to try and extort isk from them.


Then you aren't thinking very hard at all, or reading much, because a veritable myriad of reasons have already been given on this very thread.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1284 - 2014-09-21 16:55:22 UTC
I removed a trolling post. Please keep replies constructive and to point.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1285 - 2014-09-21 16:57:24 UTC
watch carebears call 'risk versus reward' while completely ignoring that the point of corps not having npc tax and being able to put up towers is the risk of being wardecced or having the towers shot

actually, don't watch, leave the thread and never return. the curse of tutankhamun lies heavily upon these pages
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1286 - 2014-09-21 16:58:13 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs


Gotta be the drop and reform corp and declare 30-1 victory. Nothing pisses em off more!



My favourite is play something else other than EVE.

Thought I'd explain why, it comes down to the employment record, I prefer to keep mine intact, rather than in and out all the time.

However, if there was no employment record I'd opt for drop and reform.





Only four reasons I can think of why you would war-dec

1) You know that you won't lose.

2) To disrupt their game play.

3) You know that you won't lose and to disrupt their game play.

4) Just to try and extort isk from them.


Then you aren't thinking very hard at all, or reading much, because a veritable myriad of reasons have already been given on this very thread.



And those reasons come back to the 4 I've mentioned.


I didn't add fun in there because unless you war-dec a corp. that wants to fight back the fun is all one sided. Plus the issue being discussed has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back as they wouldn't disband the corp. in the first place.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1287 - 2014-09-21 22:17:43 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

And those reasons come back to the 4 I've mentioned.


I didn't add fun in there because unless you war-dec a corp. that wants to fight back the fun is all one sided. Plus the issue being discussed has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back as they wouldn't disband the corp. in the first place.


And of course we get back to the e-honor argument.

Are you seriously incapable of realizing that, yes, I do have fun shooting people whether or not they chose to fight back? And yes, by the way, it is "chose", not "able", because everyone in EVE Online is able to fight back.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1288 - 2014-09-22 07:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

And those reasons come back to the 4 I've mentioned.


I didn't add fun in there because unless you war-dec a corp. that wants to fight back the fun is all one sided. Plus the issue being discussed has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back as they wouldn't disband the corp. in the first place.


And of course we get back to the e-honor argument.

Are you seriously incapable of realizing that, yes, I do have fun shooting people whether or not they chose to fight back? And yes, by the way, it is "chose", not "able", because everyone in EVE Online is able to fight back.



There's a difference between fighting back and standing a chance of surviving and fighting back and standing no chance of surviving. Which is why I say able because it isn't really a choice.

e-honor isn't even an argument that's just some glorified excuse. Not one I'd use btw.


Edit: Yes, I know you have fun, why do you think I said the fun is one sided. Because the people/person in the corp. that doesn't want to fight back isn't having any fun. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1289 - 2014-09-22 08:08:15 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs


Gotta be the drop and reform corp and declare 30-1 victory. Nothing pisses em off more!



My favourite is play something else other than EVE.

Thought I'd explain why, it comes down to the employment record, I prefer to keep mine intact, rather than in and out all the time.

However, if there was no employment record I'd opt for drop and reform.





Only four reasons I can think of why you would war-dec

1) You know that you won't lose.

2) To disrupt their game play.

3) You know that you won't lose and to disrupt their game play.

4) Just to try and extort isk from them.


Then you aren't thinking very hard at all, or reading much, because a veritable myriad of reasons have already been given on this very thread.



And those reasons come back to the 4 I've mentioned.


I didn't add fun in there because unless you war-dec a corp. that wants to fight back the fun is all one sided. Plus the issue being discussed has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back as they wouldn't disband the corp. in the first place.


Thanks for confirming loud and clear that you haven't thought about it as much as you think you have. There are a stack of reasons, many of them discussed right here in this thread, to declare war in high sec that have nothing to do with the four you listed. I'm not sure what a four-piece version of a false dichotomy is called exactly, but that's what you just did.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1290 - 2014-09-22 08:16:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Thanks for confirming loud and clear that you haven't thought about it as much as you think you have. There are a stack of reasons, many of them discussed right here in this thread, to declare war in high sec that have nothing to do with the four you listed. I'm not sure what a four-piece version of a false dichotomy is called exactly, but that's what you just did.


Ok, do you have one particularly in mind?

Bearing in mind it has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1291 - 2014-09-22 08:21:02 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#1292 - 2014-09-22 08:47:25 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually, don't watch, leave the thread and never return. the curse of tutankhamun lies heavily upon these pages

That it does, iv been chugging holy water just to catch up.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#1293 - 2014-09-22 09:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Adoulin
*looks at the threadnaught*

My incredibly simple solution to dec dodging (by closing a corp) is simple.

Aggressor gets their war dec fee (whatever it may be) refunded.

That's it.

Oh, yeah, you can try out penalties for dodging the dec in this manner (evader is unable to create or join a corp for, say, 30 days...), but the main idea is attacker gets their money back, defender lives with the horribad shame of being a wuss.

Maybe CCP can give them a Wuss sticker instead of a Wanted sticker on the CEO who does it.

If simply getting a refund is too much, how about this?

War dec fee is applied as a bounty to the CEO who dissolves the corp, or whoever is the last person to leave the corp.

Either way, easy to program into the game, and can't be exploited as far as I can tell.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1294 - 2014-09-22 09:31:18 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually, don't watch, leave the thread and never return. the curse of tutankhamun lies heavily upon these pages

That it does, iv been chugging holy water just to catch up.


Yeah I quit on page 62, every other post is a rehash of something from the first 30 pages (or less.) Havent been here for a day or so, thought Id come check back in.

"Meet the new page, same as the old page."

There's the Entitled Ones, and there's the Logical Ones.

MUCH EXCITEMENT!

WHO WILL WIN Shocked





ISD WEAPONS INSPECTORS ARRIVE:

There are no winners in Forum Fu....


...only survivors...




\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1295 - 2014-09-22 09:43:37 UTC
I've left enough time for post 1290 to have been answered and it hasn't been.

So there isn't much more to say in this thread and the discussion and the reasoning are just being repeated.



My own personal view of the current system, is this


From an RP point of view the current system doesn't work, from a practical point of view it's a good fit especially as you can still suicide gank anyone. I think the practicality outweighs the RP in the case of dodging war-decs.

As the game is catering for both PvP players and PvE players the game will never be perfect for both groups, all you can hope for is a best fit.


Now it's time to leave this thread, as it no longer serves any purpose.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1296 - 2014-09-22 09:50:41 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The main issue is not addressed: people drop a corp because that particular corp is worthless. He might value the 0% tax, so creates a new one, but that particular corp has no value to him, so he isn't motivated to try to defend it.

The mantra is "risk vs reward", but being in a highsec corp has no PvE reward. The solution is to let corps have something worth fighting for. Otherwise people have no reason to fight for that corp, so they won't. If you try to make them fight by some mechanic proposed in this thread, they just won't join any more corps and eat the NPC tax.

I'd like to stress that "make NPC tax 50%" is a bad answer, since it still don't make corp X more valuable than corp Y. The solution would be something that corps could own, making them special, worth fighting for.



That is why I said NPC tax should be 50% and the Player corp tax start at 30% and reduces by 1 % for each member you have but takes 2 full days to reduce EACH of those % points (and grow up instantly if someone leaves).

That would increase community cohesion since people would gather on larger groups (2 man corps are not good for the game). And would give a reason for people to defend their corps.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Josef Djugashvilis
#1297 - 2014-09-22 10:02:53 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The main issue is not addressed: people drop a corp because that particular corp is worthless. He might value the 0% tax, so creates a new one, but that particular corp has no value to him, so he isn't motivated to try to defend it.

The mantra is "risk vs reward", but being in a highsec corp has no PvE reward. The solution is to let corps have something worth fighting for. Otherwise people have no reason to fight for that corp, so they won't. If you try to make them fight by some mechanic proposed in this thread, they just won't join any more corps and eat the NPC tax.

I'd like to stress that "make NPC tax 50%" is a bad answer, since it still don't make corp X more valuable than corp Y. The solution would be something that corps could own, making them special, worth fighting for.



That is why I said NPC tax should be 50% and the Player corp tax start at 30% and reduces by 1 % for each member you have but takes 2 full days to reduce EACH of those % points (and grow up instantly if someone leaves).

That would increase community cohesion since people would gather on larger groups (2 man corps are not good for the game). And would give a reason for people to defend their corps.


I am quite, quite happy in my one man corp.

I can be war-decced at anytime by anyone, so I fulfill the criteria required by even the most hardened of the, 'Eve Is meant to be tough, innit'? folk.

Why should I be penalized because I would not wish to join any corp which would have me?

Your proposed corp tax would simply mean that we should all feel obliged join large corps and alliances.

No thanks.

This is not a signature.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1298 - 2014-09-22 10:34:37 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Thanks for confirming loud and clear that you haven't thought about it as much as you think you have. There are a stack of reasons, many of them discussed right here in this thread, to declare war in high sec that have nothing to do with the four you listed. I'm not sure what a four-piece version of a false dichotomy is called exactly, but that's what you just did.


Ok, do you have one particularly in mind?

Bearing in mind it has nothing to do with corps that want to fight back.


Yes, a few dozen, many of them already mentioned in this thread, and now I'm repeating that as well, but I'm not repeating myself anymore for the sake of satisfying your ignorance, willful or otherwise.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1299 - 2014-09-22 10:48:51 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The main issue is not addressed: people drop a corp because that particular corp is worthless. He might value the 0% tax, so creates a new one, but that particular corp has no value to him, so he isn't motivated to try to defend it.

The mantra is "risk vs reward", but being in a highsec corp has no PvE reward. The solution is to let corps have something worth fighting for. Otherwise people have no reason to fight for that corp, so they won't. If you try to make them fight by some mechanic proposed in this thread, they just won't join any more corps and eat the NPC tax.

I'd like to stress that "make NPC tax 50%" is a bad answer, since it still don't make corp X more valuable than corp Y. The solution would be something that corps could own, making them special, worth fighting for.



That is why I said NPC tax should be 50% and the Player corp tax start at 30% and reduces by 1 % for each member you have but takes 2 full days to reduce EACH of those % points (and grow up instantly if someone leaves).

That would increase community cohesion since people would gather on larger groups (2 man corps are not good for the game). And would give a reason for people to defend their corps.


I am quite, quite happy in my one man corp.

I can be war-decced at anytime by anyone, so I fulfill the criteria required by even the most hardened of the, 'Eve Is meant to be tough, innit'? folk.

Why should I be penalized because I would not wish to join any corp which would have me?

Your proposed corp tax would simply mean that we should all feel obliged join large corps and alliances.

No thanks.



Because the good of many and the health of the game superceed the xenophobism and lack of social skills of few.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Josef Djugashvilis
#1300 - 2014-09-22 10:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Lordy, Kagura, perhaps you should have looked up the meaning of the word, 'xenophobia' before you used it.

Folk with social skills do not play Eve Online, I thought everyone knew that?

I am one of the 'many' ergo what is good for me is good for the game :)

If CCP did not want folk to be able to avoid wardecs by whatever means, they would make it so.

Not happy with folk corp hopping or whatever?

Petition CCP rather than posting well, stuff, in the forums.

Edit.

I will to ask the obvious question,

How is my being in a one man corp bad for the game?

This is not a signature.