Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is that +mass really needed on the malediction ? :S

Does the planned module rebalancing include a buff to small shield extenders? If not, I still think the raptor looks incredibly short on fitting room compared to the other combat interceptors, even with the extra 2 PG you gave it. The taranis, crusader, and claw can all fit top-tier guns and a decent tank with either one or zero fitting mods but putting neutrons on a raptor with either an MSE or MASB requires two or three fitting mods even after the PG boost. That's silly and leaves the ship's damage output looking very poor indeed relative to the competition.

This is only true if you don't mind leaving two of your mid or lowslots unfilled (or filled with mods that take 0 PG) - with the PG buff, a max-skilled raptor with an MAPC II fitted has 62.5 PG. The fit below uses 60.3 PG, and you have four slots to fill with tackle and damage mods:

[Raptor, uses 60.3 PG out of 62.5]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Good options: DC, magstab, TE, nano, web, scrambler. Worst case, you're 2 PG over, and with one nano you're about 0.8 PG over... and this is trying to fit the biggest guns.
How is that on CPU, anyway?

Edit: Having poked around a bit, you can fit a meta web and a DC or magstab along with a nanofiber, and you're over by the aforementioned 0.8 PG with no fitting rigs. This is fine... and if you really want that particular fit, (which does 143 DPS with perfect skills and no implants, BTW), you can put a 2% PG implant in.

Or use a Faction MAPC, which would give you 63.75 PG to play with. Or an AB, which is what I had fitted at the time.

[Raptor, N. Blaster - MWD - MSE]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

CCP could you please describe your vision about the long range DPS ceptors?
What role should they have?

Besides FW
I just see them in masses to gank people and pull away when get shot.
Which makes it realy hard for any small gang to do anything.
Maybe you have noticed that BC gangs are dead. And the mass ceptor gangs are one of the reason why, besides the way to big warpspeed changes.

If ceptors have highest speed, bubble imunity, run away capabilites then they shold not be able to shoot from 50k+

I do not see why the lml-malediction needs a double nerf to its dps.

In my oppinion malediction-fleets would not replace crow-fleets not only due to their lower damage, but also due to their shorter missile range. Malediction, in its actual tackle role was damage wise more or less on par with the rest tacklers, and regardless of its damage, lml will still be used for that role as they suit the effective t2 disruptor range.
I personally do not see this change being catastrophic for the ship, as dps is irrelevant for actual tackle. But with that been said, i still see no reason for the double nerf.

"Gimpy to direct combat strenght"?
"Rocket-only bonus allows 'heavy' fast tackle ship"?
"with above average tank and self-defence"?

Your statements show a very poor understanding of tackle-aimed interceptors in general.

lets start with some basic things:
The stiletto is as agile as than the malediction, it nearly has the same speed, and it has a forth slot to stick an ancillary shield booster (or ewar) for which you would sacrifice firepower anyway. The crow which has a similar slot layout would also have to sacrifice firepower, but at the same time it is the least agile and the slowest tackle-aimed-ceptor.
The ares is the most agile ceptor, nearly identical to the malediction but lacks abit on speed and alot on firepower. That is ofcourse at 24-30km ranges in which tackle-aimed-ceptors are played, because if you put short range ammo or for some reason use a scrambler and blasters then it is a completely different scenario, and yes it would have nearly twice the damage not just of missile but also of a rocket-fit malediction, but you probably wouldnt be flying that because there is always taranis.

Generally, your role as an actual tackler is very simple, to tackle stuff, survive, and repeat.
You want to be as far away as possible from what you tackle to avoid short range weapons, ewar as well as have time to react if the enemy maneuvers to get closer to you. You also want to be as agile/fast as possible to reduce the chance of being hit, the damage you take and your "escape" time. You also want to have as much 'tank' you can add without screwing up your speed.

The reason why the crow was op, is not because it tackled good, but because the range bonus allowed it to shoot from distances way greater than the range needed to warp disrupt stuff with max skills. This is why there were crow fleets around, just like there were harpy fleets around, or what ever else fleets around.
For its actual role, meaning to tackle stuff, in my oppinion, the crow completelly sucked compared to the other ceptors and this is why i never flown it for that purpose, i always saw it as a nicely painted flying brick that just shoots at long distances.
The malediction never had that ridiculous range that would make malediction fleets practical, and i underline this, not theoritically sounding nice, but actually practical.

Now for the malediction itself, it is the fleet tackle amarr interceptor, and it will still be fitted and flown the same way, regardless if the bonuses changes or not, and for that it really doesnt mater if it does 30 or 50 dps.
Rockets would not be used because as we said you dont want to be close to what you tackle.
Its armor bonus is for this role nearly worthless, as adding armor means you slow down, and adding a rep means you have no hp to survive hits and warp away. The only thing that sort of worths it, is resistances but even that is inferior to shield buffer because the second one regenerates and takes a mid slot instead of a low.

Simply put, you practically cannot have an actual fleet-tackle-malediction and use rockets, and armor tank will always be inferior.
perhaps for small ganks it would work, but that wouldnt be any different from tackling with a t1 frig.

the primary reason why maledictions damage is nerfed is because it would just be much harder to bring up the ares and stiletto to similar damage without messing with the weapon systems and while keeping their short range weapons balanced at the same time. Imagine if eg an ares with railguns would deal the same long range damage as malediction does now, then it would be "that guy put short range ammo and did sick dps" drama.
So the solution is simple, to just nerf maledictions damage to be from 55 to 40 something and being equally bad on long ranges as the others already are.
I think two nerfs at the same time are not needed, because if something goes wrong, turrets can at least change ammo to shorter range one, while the malediction cannot.

Finally, what should be done is to take a look at the crusader, so maybe people instead of trying to use the aimed-at-tackle ceptor could instead use what was aimed for combat....

big reply, i know

Why does everyone assume that fleet ceptors are supposed to deal damage at range?

If people really want to kill stuff at ranged with a malediciton they can still fit LML. Since previous posts has stated that a damage nerf doesn't matter at all, it shouldn't be a problem that the RoF bonus doesn't apply. I bet a dedicated rail ares would still have worse dps at range.



Why not? Stiletto and Ares are pretty much limited to close range weapons. Their guns aren't for killing your target but rather defense against drones and frigates that are chasing you. A malediction can use rockets for the same reason. With the mass change on the malediction it doesn't get that much of a penalty from a 200mm plate. And will be almost as fast and almost as agile as a stiletto (fits below). In return it gets more ehp (36% more), better resist (thus being able to catch reps much easier), smaller sig (74.3 vs 89.2), better actual dps (as the autocannons will be in falloff). It will have lower scanres but the sensorstrength and targeting range will be better. So the malediction will actually be pretty good at what it is supposed to do: tackle stuff. And I would certainly pick it over the stiletto for armor gangs and probably also logiless gangs.

Fits used in the comparison:

[Malediction, Tackle]

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Warp Disruptor II

'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

[Stiletto, Dual tackle]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Warp Disruptor II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Sadly it is the only effective way to catch ratters in null.