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P.I. buy T0 from market?
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Zucara Fidard
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-09-19 15:15:09 UTC
Ok so I found this web page of EveWiki that talks about Planetary Commodities.

Near the bottom there is a part where it says it takes 432000 units of T0 to produce 1 unit of T4.

I did the maths using as an example 1 unit of Self-Harmonizing Power Core. This sells at Jita for around 1,040,000 isk per unit.

Now, calculating the cost for all 9 T0 mats that are used to eventually produce it, (432000x the cost per T0 unit at Jita),

I get over 24,000,000 isk worth of T0 to produce 1 unit of T4 that sells for 1,040,000 isk -- this can't be right.

So I figured that maybe the eve wiki page meant that the 432000 units is the total units of all 9 raw mats combined.

So I divided the 432,000 by the 9 mats and calculated from there.

This scenerio came out to be 1,346,000 isk to produce 1 unit that will sell for around 1,040,000 isk -- still over 300,000 isk per unit I'd need just to break even, and that's not including Import/Export fees and sales taxes.

Now, I admit that I have always had the math skills of a Neanderthal , but -- How can full-scale P.I. possibly be profitable ???
Rumbaldi
Tannhauser C-Beam
#2 - 2014-09-19 16:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rumbaldi
You wouldnt generally buy P0 materials, your PI planets would be there to set up the production, you may have several planets making P2/P3 items then move that to a factory planet to make the P4.

To buy P0 would be nuts due to the m3 levels of amounts needed.

It is worth pointing out that the custom office import/export taxes in high sec will often make this more or less pointless at any level unless you own the custom office.

also is the 432000 not the total amount of P0 over all things needed?

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities#Tier_1_-_Processed_Materials_.28P1.29
Zucara Fidard
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-09-19 16:46:18 UTC
Rumbaldi wrote:
You wouldnt generally buy P0 materials, your PI planets would be there to set up the production, you may have several planets making P2/P3 items then move that to a factory planet to make the P4.

To buy P0 would be nuts due to the m3 levels of amounts needed.

It is worth pointing out that the custom office import/export taxes in high sec will often make this more or less pointless at any level unless you own the custom office.

also is the 432000 not the total amount of P0 over all things needed?

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities#Tier_1_-_Processed_Materials_.28P1.29



Yeah you're right -- according to the chart at the bottom, the T0 mat quantities are each 48000 or 24000 depending. Good catch.

Why is there even a market for P0 ?

I probably wasted time training the PI skills. Doesn't look like I'll be in the business, there are ony like 3 un-POCO'd planets left in the whole game, and I am not in a player corp to be able to take one down by force.

Here's a quiestion: If someone in a player corp put up a POCO and then left to join a NPC corp, would that POCO then be un attackable (via wardec, I'm in Hisec) ?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#4 - 2014-09-19 17:05:03 UTC
Zucara Fidard wrote:
Here's a quiestion: If someone in a player corp put up a POCO and then left to join a NPC corp, would that POCO then be un attackable (via wardec, I'm in Hisec) ?

POCOs are corp assets, not personal assets, just like POS towers. If the player who anchored them left the corp, nothing would change as long as the corp is still extant.

I believe that if the corp closes (i.e. all members leave) that all in-space assets are forfeited (i.e. they disappear). I'm not 100% certain on this though.


Regarding your earlier question: it can make sense to buy PI inputs, run planetary factories, and sell the outputs if you find the right market conditions and a good planet with low taxes, but your inputs would almost certainly be P1s or P2s, not R0s (to use the EvEUni Wiki parlance). If you're gathering resources at all, process them into P1s at least before taking them to market; they're worth more and they're considerably smaller and easier to haul.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Zucara Fidard
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-09-19 17:21:05 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Zucara Fidard wrote:
Here's a quiestion: If someone in a player corp put up a POCO and then left to join a NPC corp, would that POCO then be un attackable (via wardec, I'm in Hisec) ?

POCOs are corp assets, not personal assets, just like POS towers. If the player who anchored them left the corp, nothing would change as long as the corp is still extant.

I believe that if the corp closes (i.e. all members leave) that all in-space assets are forfeited (i.e. they disappear). I'm not 100% certain on this though.


Regarding your earlier question: it can make sense to buy PI inputs, run planetary factories, and sell the outputs if you find the right market conditions and a good planet with low taxes, but your inputs would almost certainly be P1s or P2s, not R0s (to use the EvEUni Wiki parlance). If you're gathering resources at all, process them into P1s at least before taking them to market; they're worth more and they're considerably smaller and easier to haul.


Hmm...

I have a pretty large amount of T0 mats sitting in my Office Station, from when I first started PI. Now I'm thinking I should put them on the market, as using them is planetside only, and the import fees to send them down would be crazy. Again, unless I had a zero-tax POCO. Maybe someone with their own POCO will buy them...
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#6 - 2014-09-19 19:20:12 UTC
Zucara Fidard wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Zucara Fidard wrote:
Here's a quiestion: If someone in a player corp put up a POCO and then left to join a NPC corp, would that POCO then be un attackable (via wardec, I'm in Hisec) ?

POCOs are corp assets, not personal assets, just like POS towers. If the player who anchored them left the corp, nothing would change as long as the corp is still extant.

I believe that if the corp closes (i.e. all members leave) that all in-space assets are forfeited (i.e. they disappear). I'm not 100% certain on this though.


Regarding your earlier question: it can make sense to buy PI inputs, run planetary factories, and sell the outputs if you find the right market conditions and a good planet with low taxes, but your inputs would almost certainly be P1s or P2s, not R0s (to use the EvEUni Wiki parlance). If you're gathering resources at all, process them into P1s at least before taking them to market; they're worth more and they're considerably smaller and easier to haul.


Hmm...

I have a pretty large amount of T0 mats sitting in my Office Station, from when I first started PI. Now I'm thinking I should put them on the market, as using them is planetside only, and the import fees to send them down would be crazy. Again, unless I had a zero-tax POCO. Maybe someone with their own POCO will buy them...


You have a weird obsession with regards to owning POCOs. Even if the opening corporation has a 0% high security POCO they still have NPC tax.

No one really users P0 materials, thus the market is not atrue reflection of their value.
Rumbaldi
Tannhauser C-Beam
#7 - 2014-09-19 19:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rumbaldi
You could always join a corp?

I make between 250/300m per month making P3 and selling then to buy orders.

I use my other 2 account alts though, i have 16 planets, 3 of which are factory, most of my PI skills (bar a couple on 1 toon) are at level IV
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#8 - 2014-09-20 01:02:33 UTC
Zucara Fidard wrote:
Rumbaldi wrote:
You wouldnt generally buy P0 materials, your PI planets would be there to set up the production, you may have several planets making P2/P3 items then move that to a factory planet to make the P4.

To buy P0 would be nuts due to the m3 levels of amounts needed.

It is worth pointing out that the custom office import/export taxes in high sec will often make this more or less pointless at any level unless you own the custom office.

also is the 432000 not the total amount of P0 over all things needed?

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities#Tier_1_-_Processed_Materials_.28P1.29



Yeah you're right -- according to the chart at the bottom, the T0 mat quantities are each 48000 or 24000 depending. Good catch.

Why is there even a market for P0 ?

I probably wasted time training the PI skills. Doesn't look like I'll be in the business, there are ony like 3 un-POCO'd planets left in the whole game, and I am not in a player corp to be able to take one down by force.

Here's a quiestion: If someone in a player corp put up a POCO and then left to join a NPC corp, would that POCO then be un attackable (via wardec, I'm in Hisec) ?


I believe CCP said at Fanfest this year that there wasn't a single Interbus Customs Office left in high sec. In other words all the planets in high sec now have POCOs orbiting them.

Your best option is probably to negotiate fairer taxes at the planets you do planetary interaction at. I agree there are a lot of unsavoury types about and it's not uncommon to find planets with 50 or even 75% tax at their POCOs. But there are also friendly corporations & alliances about where you may be able to cut a deal. Make sure you train the Customs Tax skillbook to level five as well Smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#9 - 2014-09-20 01:12:37 UTC
I don't imagine there is that much trade in P0 material mainly due to the m3 and associated taxes to import the material down to planetside. Possible exception to this may be the three rarer types - Autotrophs and the other two - I think I might have done some of that in the past. After a small dabble in the POCO ownership pond post-high sec CO/POCO changes it became too much of a pain in the **** and I largely haven't bothered with Planetary Interaction since then. I imagine a fair percentage dropped PI at that point but I'm not in a position to have the figures for that.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-09-20 11:35:25 UTC
Believe it or not, people do buy P0s. Sales will be intermittent, but they are there.
Maker Atavuli
Atavuli Exploration Society
#11 - 2014-09-26 18:24:45 UTC
we run all of our own POCOs in a WH. Rates for in corp are 0% I think.

I am NOT crazy they made me take my medication this morning!
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-09-29 10:11:33 UTC
It is better to buy the corresponding P1 for several reasons.
1) When I was still researching it, I found out that even excluding import/export taxes, certain P1's are cheaper to buy than make from P0's. I checked it a couple of times for a couple of weeks - were different materials each time, so I decided to just not care about P0 and buy P1.
2) Importing P0 is more expensive than importing the equivalent amount of P1 (3000 P0's produce 20 P1'1, so 150 P0's turns into 1 P1. P0 base cost, used to tax calculation is 4ISK, so the tax will be 150*4*TAXRATE=600*TAXRATE for P0 materials. P1 base cost is 400 ISK, so the tax will be quite a bit less).
3) P0 is much more bulky than P1 (150*0.01=1.5 m^3 for P0 and only 0.38 m^3 for P1), so if you want to minimize number of trips, you better get P1.
Oh, and if you dont about Gallente industrials, get an Epithal for your PI operations. I wish I knew about it sooner.