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Dodging Wardecs

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1001 - 2014-09-19 11:01:05 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Dear God, what a bunch of whine.

If someone doesn't want to fight you either go gank them or let them be. Don't come here complaining about how you didn't get to fight people who obviously don't want to fight you. How is this a problem Roll ? Go wardec people who have no problem with PvP. Go wardec people who want to fight. I'd even go as far as saying, come wardec us. Unless of course you don't like people shooting back at you, and you just want some easy kills. In that case, stop complaining and return to the first line in this paragraph.

To answer your questions Dalto:

The war dec is there for your to attack someone. If people don't want to get attacked, they either leave the corp or alliance, or surrender. That's their right.

Are they easy to dodge? It's not harder than declaring a war. Recreating a corp takes much more effort than declaring war. You make it sound like these people are using exploits or what not. They are literally packing up shop.

So get off of your high horse. You have no right enforcing your way of playing the game on others.


no one in eve has the right to e immune to pvp and by extension of tht i absolutely have the right to force my playstyle on them.

at any rate, you are narrow minded. this is about the health of thr game and the balance of options for agressors and defenders to make a coherent system of pvp in hisec that you cant just opt out of. opting out is against the spirit of eve, and not at al about your small inded views regarding space honor and bullying or whatever your platform is. i cant tell cuz i just skimmed your post since ive read the same drive countless times.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Solecist Project
#1002 - 2014-09-19 11:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Tell you what ... I'll dig out Solstice's Attitude for this post ....


Back in 2012 or 2013, I don't recall exactly but I had positive sec again, (eww...)
occasionally a random stupid bigmouth in Hek thought it was a smart idea
to run his stupid big mouth against yours truly, Solstice.

I told him that it really isn't the brightest thing to do,
completely reasonable as the better one should do,
but in his infinite wisdom of knowing that I am a lone person, he just didn't listen.

Much to the amusement of the residents of Hek of course.

So I decced him. His big mouth just kept running.

His corp had less than ten, but actual people in it.
No one helped him. Makes sense, tbh.

I waited a few days.

I started showing up where he was,
saying nothing at all. Just showing presence.

Started showing up in his HQ system.
That really made him suffer...

He still bigmouthed, but noticeable scared.

So I sat there in my Tornado at 100km in front of the undock ... waiting.

He thought undocking in a dramiel and heading straight towards me ...
... was a bright idea...
... but DAMN it wasn't!

Then he undocked in some special harbinger... 180mill ...
... realised the futility and docked again.

And then I made sure he understands his mistake and learns that messing with the wrong people
can have serious negative consequences. He refused to shut up... so wardecs started coming in.

One more... two more ...
... and reality finally dawned onto him.

The end result was that he paid me 250 Mill ... gave away his harbinger to another deccer ...
... and I made him apologize in public for being a stupid little kid that shouldn't talk **** ...
... against people that will rightfully spank his candy ass for it.

I paid the 50mill for the third dec back, because he got nothing out of it.


Conclusion.


People who only fight weaker people and outnumber them,
and then complain when these victims disband corp should be harrassed with wardecs themselves.

Ad infinitum.


That's my thought about it. I hate cowards. The mechanics definitely need a change,
but not to support the decbears who have no balls whatsoever.

Most often people deserve it one way or the other!


I miss this time. A bit. :)
A tiny, tiny bit. (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1003 - 2014-09-19 11:07:14 UTC
On the other hand, the carebears don't care at all what you want either. They are happy creating their own content, working the market, hauling stuff, ... So it just goes full circle again then doesn't it.

I do like how your reasoning is basically; "what I want is better and therefore my opinion of what should be done matters more than what those people over there think".

EVE is a sanbox, in that you're right. There is PvP, right again. However, sandbox by definition means anything is equally good, you make content any way you want. Be it through PvP, industry, ... They are all equal parts. To say that your opinion is worth more because yours concerns PvP, is probably one of the most daft things I've read on here.

By the way, I can play Super Mario any way I want. In this case, it's not even the carebears whining to Nintendo. It's you, because other's don't want to play the game the same way you do. No one is talking about spelunking or any other kind of game. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or serious.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1004 - 2014-09-19 11:07:31 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
You have no right enforcing your way of playing the game on others.

Saying the above is the same as saying that non consensual PvP should not exist.
But since non consensual PvP is pretty much the point of the whole game... how about no?

There's a big difference between what is possible with the current mechanics and demanding fundamental game design changes. One is possible the way it is and is accepted. The other one is YOU demanding a change to further suit YOUR OWN play style against the wishes and against the play styles others might have.

Gank people and stop complaining CCP doesn't want to cater to your specific way of doing things when there's clearly others who aren't interested in it. Can you be any more self-entitled?

This pretty much sums up what's wrong with all the whining in this thread though.


i guess being in a themepark pvp group has skewed your understanding of eve, but pvp is not supposed to be optional in eve. a players desire, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

there are people in this thread who dont even participate in wardecs who agree that the current balance and mechanics are messed up. relatd issues are npc vs player corp balance. and many people who dont participate in decs agree on that, too. youre operating from a script. unscript yourself.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1005 - 2014-09-19 11:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Grog Aftermath
Trixie Lawless wrote:
Wow, this topic has gone from wardec mechanics to crying about not being able to freely pop people in high sec. People need to quit getting so damn angry over a video game.



It's actually about trying to make it as difficult as possible for PvE players. Trying to discourage them from remaining in-game.

The more PvE players the more likely they will be able to instigate changes. So keeping the numbers of PvE players down will tend to keep the game more PvP focused.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1006 - 2014-09-19 11:11:26 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
On the other hand, the carebears don't care at all what you want either. They are happy creating their own content, working the market, hauling stuff, ... So it just goes full circle again then doesn't it.

I do like how your reasoning is basically; "what I want is better and therefore my opinion of what should be done matters more than what those people over there think".

EVE is a sanbox, in that you're right. There is PvP, right again. However, sandbox by definition means anything is equally good, you make content any way you want. Be it through PvP, industry, ... They are all equal parts. To say that your opinion is worth more because yours concerns PvP, is probably one of the most daft things I've read on here.

By the way, I can play Super Mario any way I want. In this case, it's not even the carebears whining to Nintendo. It's you, because other's don't want to play the game the same way you do. No one is talking about spelunking or any other kind of game. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or serious.


except carebears dont know what is good for them. people who understand eve have to bear tha burden for them.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1007 - 2014-09-19 11:13:55 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
Wow, this topic has gone from wardec mechanics to crying about not being able to freely pop people in high sec. People need to quit getting so damn angry over a video game.



It's actually about trying to make it as difficult as possible for PvE players. Trying to discourage them from remaining in-game.

The more PvE players the more likely they will be able to instigate changes. So keeping the numbers of PvE players down it will tend to keep the game more PvP focused.


i would actually like to see eve have more players than less. however, if having more players means dumbing the game down and making ot mor themeparky... then im willing to make the sacrifice of havingless players to turn into my content.

a single player who understands eve and accepts it for what it is is better than a dozen carebears.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Solecist Project
#1008 - 2014-09-19 11:14:41 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
On the other hand, the carebears don't care at all what you want either. They are happy creating their own content, working the market, hauling stuff, ... So it just goes full circle again then doesn't it.

I do like how your reasoning is basically; "what I want is better and therefore my opinion of what should be done matters more than what those people over there think".

EVE is a sanbox, in that you're right. There is PvP, right again. However, sandbox by definition means anything is equally good, you make content any way you want. Be it through PvP, industry, ... They are all equal parts. To say that your opinion is worth more because yours concerns PvP, is probably one of the most daft things I've read on here.

My opinion is worth more ...
... if I shove it down your throat with 1400mm ...
... and let that explain it by itself.

There is no equality, no matter how much you want to imagine it.

Sandbox means that anyone can take the shovel ...
... and spank your candy ass with it all day if he wants to ...
... within the limits of the EULA and TOS.

It's not too hard to understand the nature of the game, really...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1009 - 2014-09-19 11:14:58 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
You have no right enforcing your way of playing the game on others.

Saying the above is the same as saying that non consensual PvP should not exist.
But since non consensual PvP is pretty much the point of the whole game... how about no?

There's a big difference between what is possible with the current mechanics and demanding fundamental game design changes. One is possible the way it is and is accepted. The other one is YOU demanding a change to further suit YOUR OWN play style against the wishes and against the play styles others might have.

Gank people and stop complaining CCP doesn't want to cater to your specific way of doing things when there's clearly others who aren't interested in it. Can you be any more self-entitled?

This pretty much sums up what's wrong with all the whining in this thread though.


i guess being in a themepark pvp group has skewed your understanding of eve, but pvp is not supposed to be optional in eve. a players desire, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

there are people in this thread who dont even participate in wardecs who agree that the current balance and mechanics are messed up. relatd issues are npc vs player corp balance. and many people who dont participate in decs agree on that, too. youre operating from a script. unscript yourself.


Yes, the balance and mechanics behind wardecs are messed up. It's poorly done and the more I read about it and 'understand' it, the more I think it's been thrown in there because someone seems to think that Eve needs this kind of thing so there's highsec PvP. It's not just screwed in favour of the defender. All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out. It's not like the attacker ever actually needs to do anything other than pay some ISK to keep a war active.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1010 - 2014-09-19 11:17:24 UTC
Hey man, this stuff is expensive! They need their ganks to take less ISK and less effort, evidently.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1011 - 2014-09-19 11:19:47 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out.


Why do people keep repeating this lie?

No, you do not need to "opt out".

You just need to play the game with more than 1/8th of your ass.

Now, I know that kinda defeats the purpose of what some people would like to think highsec is about, zero effort gameplay, but it does actually work.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solecist Project
#1012 - 2014-09-19 11:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
The defender also could learn that standing up for ones self ...
... actually boosts self confidence way more honestly ...
... than killing worthless NPCs and being proud about it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#1013 - 2014-09-19 11:24:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out.


Why do people keep repeating this lie?



That's not a lie from their perspective, if you weren't such an extremist you might see that.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1014 - 2014-09-19 11:26:46 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out.


Why do people keep repeating this lie?



That's not a lie from their perspective, if you weren't such an extremist you might see that.


There is no "perspective", it is 100% possible to mission or mine during a wardec.

That is, if you can play the game even halfway correctly anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1015 - 2014-09-19 11:28:31 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out.


Why do people keep repeating this lie?



That's not a lie from their perspective, if you weren't such an extremist you might see that.


The only extremism I'm seeing in this one is people choosing to be defenseless, and then asserting their only choice is to opt out. This "only choice" thing is an absolute, an extreme absolute, as if there's no other option. But there are always other options.

For the record, the choice to opt out =/= the choice to roll corp.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1016 - 2014-09-19 11:29:25 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
You have no right enforcing your way of playing the game on others.

Saying the above is the same as saying that non consensual PvP should not exist.
But since non consensual PvP is pretty much the point of the whole game... how about no?

There's a big difference between what is possible with the current mechanics and demanding fundamental game design changes. One is possible the way it is and is accepted. The other one is YOU demanding a change to further suit YOUR OWN play style against the wishes and against the play styles others might have.

Gank people and stop complaining CCP doesn't want to cater to your specific way of doing things when there's clearly others who aren't interested in it. Can you be any more self-entitled?

This pretty much sums up what's wrong with all the whining in this thread though.


i guess being in a themepark pvp group has skewed your understanding of eve, but pvp is not supposed to be optional in eve. a players desire, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

there are people in this thread who dont even participate in wardecs who agree that the current balance and mechanics are messed up. relatd issues are npc vs player corp balance. and many people who dont participate in decs agree on that, too. youre operating from a script. unscript yourself.


Yes, the balance and mechanics behind wardecs are messed up. It's poorly done and the more I read about it and 'understand' it, the more I think it's been thrown in there because someone seems to think that Eve needs this kind of thing so there's highsec PvP. It's not just screwed in favour of the defender. All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out. It's not like the attacker ever actually needs to do anything other than pay some ISK to keep a war active.


erm, the defender can either fight back (they have the same tools at their disposal as the deccers - player skill/experience level is not and should not be a balancing factor) or they can completely opt out with no appreciable penalty for doing so.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1017 - 2014-09-19 11:31:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xuixien wrote:

while we're at it lets remove gatguns... theyre oboslete at this point anyway due to logi and such


Besides this, which is a big yes, why don't rats gatecamp in highsec? Now that would be a content creator, nevermind an appropriate punishment for using autopilot.



They used to in ages long past.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1018 - 2014-09-19 11:33:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
All the defender in a wardec can do is to opt out.


Why do people keep repeating this lie?



That's not a lie from their perspective, if you weren't such an extremist you might see that.


The only extremism I'm seeing in this one is people choosing to be defenseless, and then asserting their only choice is to opt out. This "only choice" thing is an absolute, an extreme absolute, as if there's no other option. But there are always other options.

For the record, the choice to opt out =/= the choice to roll corp.


if you only have one choice, is it even a choice, really? these people are opting to have no choice, not due to any external factors such as game mechanics, but because of their own perception. the game should not be balanced around fallible player perception.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1019 - 2014-09-19 11:36:11 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
erm, the defender can either fight back (they have the same tools at their disposal as the deccers - player skill/experience level is not and should not be a balancing factor) or they can completely opt out with no appreciable penalty for doing so.

Except that they need to recreate a corp, they might lose possible assets, they need to redo installations, ... Sure sounds like nothing compared to spending 10 seconds and paying a minimal amount of ISK, which is pretty much the only thing you need to do. You're right though, wardecs need some fixing.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1020 - 2014-09-19 11:38:13 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
erm, the defender can either fight back (they have the same tools at their disposal as the deccers - player skill/experience level is not and should not be a balancing factor) or they can completely opt out with no appreciable penalty for doing so.

Except that they need to recreate a corp, they might lose possible assets, they need to redo installations, ... Sure sounds like nothing compared to spending 10 seconds and paying a minimal amount of ISK, which is pretty much the only thing you need to do. You're right though, wardecs need some fixing.


sounds like theyre getting off light to me. heaven forbid the have to re-anchor a pos!!!!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist