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CCP - Please Remove SOV - (Structures & Timers) aka "Training Wheels"

First post
Author
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2014-09-18 16:53:01 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?

I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations?

If you haven’t noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you haven’t noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk we’ve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like “turn it into NPC Null sec” without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be “no”….Roll

As far as you being “confident” that CFC could blob without timers goes…….good for you. From your employment history it looks like you’ve been kicked about this game worse than most toons I’ve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally “make it” by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigade…….gf…Ugh

“But why should your arses dock in our stations”……Lol…..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first place……..Blink

Anywhoo…….thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summit…Cool
.


You have such wonderful ideas, my good fellow.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Brigadine Ferathine
Cerberus-Horizon
#182 - 2014-09-18 18:52:48 UTC
Yeah it would be nice to see the little guy have fun for a change. DOWN WITH THE NULLSEC HUMAN CENTIPEDE...minus provi.
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
SONS of BANE
#183 - 2014-09-18 19:52:03 UTC

Quote:

Quote:


Bring Military and Indy to 5 you gain control of that system progressively more.


Have fun keeping that if you are not in the system(s) all the time. Without the current sov mechanic, you can only enforce your claimes in areas where you are actually present. Where nothing happens from your side, you don't "own" the space.

Thats the whole point.
If you live in the friggin system all the time you get the benefits. If you don't well tough luck
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2014-09-18 19:54:59 UTC
There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2014-09-18 19:58:34 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
There are other areas of space where the mechanics encourage small-gang work.

Your kidding?...Ugh
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
SONS of BANE
#186 - 2014-09-18 20:12:20 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
so you want to take away sov itself and replace it with npc nullsec?

I'm confident the cfc can blob anyone even without timers. But why should your arses dock in our stations?

If you haven’t noticed yet, CCP is planning on changing null sec mechanics. Furthermore, if you haven’t noticed, SOV mechanics are **** and have in part produced the circle jerk we’ve got going on today. Add a little goonie diplomacy in there and we got the human centipede we see circling null sec. If you want to throw a statement at it like “turn it into NPC Null sec” without reading the rest of the ideas that differ it from NPC Null sec then my effortless answer back to you would be “no”….Roll

As far as you being “confident” that CFC could blob without timers goes…….good for you. From your employment history it looks like you’ve been kicked about this game worse than most toons I’ve seen so that explains why you would be heated about my idea. You finally “make it” by giving up on being good at the game and join the wannabe goon blob brigade…….gf…Ugh

“But why should your arses dock in our stations”……Lol…..Yah know what would be hilarious? If CCP implemented the mechanic where you could only doc in a Null Sec station if your character was part of the Corp who anchored it at the time it was anchored. That would keep followers like you from crying about losing or not having access to assets you never had anything to do with in the first place……..Blink

Anywhoo…….thanks for the bump and should be fun to hear what CSM and CCP hammer out this week at the summit…Cool
.

Ok how about a slightly more serious take on this point. If the goons can organize enough people to blob everyone all the time then more power to them. I am absolutely certain that they can't blob everyone all the time. BUT they sure as hell can blob a good area of space and make it Goonland. That's what we want to see it. If goons want to make they own kingdom they can have it as long as they live there and defend it. If they think they can hold more space they need to be able to expand and use the new space as well as take it from the previous holders. Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control.
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2014-09-18 20:41:32 UTC
Krystyn wrote:
Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control.

Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to “deal with it” since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc.

If you want to “own” the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc.

I’d like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc.
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
SONS of BANE
#188 - 2014-09-18 22:06:41 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Krystyn wrote:
Although, if you control/built a station you should certainly be allowed to block access to whoever you want. But, they could just toss up a POS and live out of there. And if you don't do anything to prevent them...its obviously not under your control.

Access to stations allows space to be contested on a granular and real time level between entities. You can only bat phone your buddies so many times from 3 regions away before they will tell you to “deal with it” since the hostiles can just dock up if you bring friends to fight them, wait you out, and undock when your friends have left to continue working the space etc.

If you want to “own” the space then you need to be able to defend it at all times. Tossing up a POS to live out of just allows one side to blob out the other etc.

I’d like to see CCP focus their efforts not on creating some insanely intricate math formula for keeping SOV etc, and focus on developing new aspects of the game related to the reasons why players want that space over another location etc.
.

Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2014-11-14 12:47:00 UTC
So with CCP now considering the basics of this approach, it sounds like the biggest question would be "what to fight over if there are no timers?"...

Well thats where CCP can now put thier efforts and focus to breath new life it why we are out there and what will drive conflict well into the future....instead of the same old crappy SOV structures and timers.Roll
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#190 - 2014-11-17 15:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Null is and will stay broken as long as a simple(!) change is not applied, but let me explain it a bit.

The current SOV owners always have 100% control over their area, no matter how many members the corp claiming the space actually has and how many systems they control. As soon as someone else places a POS in their region they are automatically informed by email.
So all you currently need to keep this "hamster wheel" spinning is a corp with enough renters to pay the monthly bills for the SOV signs and at least one fleet to discourage small groups from using your area you don't want (move in, place a POS, don't pay rent). This is the current situation ,see NCDOts renter space as example where a small gang with 10-20 people keep >600 systems under control.

Dropping the automatic message now would totally change the game. The owner suddenly has to spend game time, fly around in the claimed space and actively search for intruders. Suddenly there is a relationship between the size of the claimed space and the amount of members in your corp. The more members, to more systems can be controlled.

On the other side the question for a renter would be: Why pay rent and not just sneak in instead? How high is the chance that 10 men travel through 600 systems with scanner probes searching for unwanted POSses to find you?

With less/no renter income the big groups only can shrink their claimed areas to compensate the loss of income, and as soon as the last big renter paid super cap fleets have been destroyed null would look totally different.

Simple change but I would say: it would be efficient.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#191 - 2014-11-17 15:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
[edit] wrong button pressed. [/edit
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#192 - 2014-11-18 20:07:03 UTC
Don't know if people missed it because of link-click fatigue, but there is (I believe) a silver bullet hiding in my musings on this that has been missed in many proposals to fix null sov to date...

Yes, power projection was a good first step. Getting rid of structure grinding and timers is an important next one. But just as important is to nerf ISK generation across the board, then provide buffs to ISK generation through conquest at the alliance level.

Shocked

No more dropping IHUBS for buffs, your buffs come from number of alliance systems held.
No more coalition circle jerking, because buffs only benefit an alliance.
No more renter stagnation, because renters don't receive buff benefits, only alliance members do.

SOV 2.0 needs to center around making it an ISK wasteland to start, and then giving ISK generation buffs back to each alliance based on the number of systems they conquer and hold.

F

Jenshae Chiroptera
#193 - 2014-11-19 02:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
I am sure these have been said before in this thread, I don't have enough interest to read it all but I will say it for the sake of reiterating it:

1) Some systems are kept not to be used but to keep the spice flowing. They are pretty much just there for blue space to fly through and with the recent jump changes that will become more important.
2) There are time holes in every alliance. Without timers they will not gather and will not defend, so you will see a lot of explosions for awhile then a very empty null sec as the cost of building up systems out weighs the gains.

Edit:

An interesting thing might be acknowledging coalitions in the mechanics. Allow different alliances to build stations in each other's systems. This might cause coalitions to contract into smaller areas that are more easily defended. Those defense fleets would see more combat. Instead of a few blues hiding and waiting for the horde to pass through a few systems.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#194 - 2014-11-19 14:09:58 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I am sure these have been said before in this thread, I don't have enough interest to read it all but I will say it for the sake of reiterating it:

1) Some systems are kept not to be used but to keep the spice flowing. They are pretty much just there for blue space to fly through and with the recent jump changes that will become more important.
2) There are time holes in every alliance. Without timers they will not gather and will not defend, so you will see a lot of explosions for awhile then a very empty null sec as the cost of building up systems out weighs the gains.

Edit:

An interesting thing might be acknowledging coalitions in the mechanics. Allow different alliances to build stations in each other's systems. This might cause coalitions to contract into smaller areas that are more easily defended. Those defense fleets would see more combat. Instead of a few blues hiding and waiting for the horde to pass through a few systems.

You are assuming that null will be emptied, as if no alliances would step up to claim space abandoned by others.

You may not understand this, but to many null has created the impression of being full.

Is the space being used? Not important to the guy outside that alliance, since it was CLAIMED.
They can't get in to use it, because a fleet would show up to kick them out, and they KNOW this.

The perception of being full, while in many ways falling short of full activity, is supported by being defended by those who claimed the space.

It doesn't matter if you would use it, if you can't either take it, or have the mindset of a renter.

The space is going unused because the big blue doughnuts wanted gud fights rather than population density.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#195 - 2014-11-25 17:01:50 UTC
CCP has done well to nerf power projection for fleet fights. Now, they just have to do the same for SOV. I do believe there are several small coding changes that CCP could make that would 'ween' or force us into adapting to an occupancy-based sov system, prior to them introducing major changes and features. Ideally I'd like to see them remove all timers, but a middle-ground of removing all timers for Border systems (ie border systems of current alliance sov holder) would also work.

If border systems could change hands in less than a day, it wouldn't really matter too much if they ping-ponged with ownership. It would mean that yes, a huge supercap fleet from regions away could come and take the system really fast, but, it also means that the system could just be retaken the same day said supercap fleet leaves. This should put an end to the tired meta of having one supercap fleet being able to defend your multiple regions, and should force systems to be held only by local defenders.
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