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Moved to low sec for almost all my isk needs but......

First post
Author
Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
#1 - 2014-09-15 04:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennej
After the last high sec nerf (PI) I decided that I was tired of paying 20% + hi sec tax on a spartan little resource. Since I haul around in low anyways, I moved all my colonies to low systems of .2 and .1 Recently, I ran into an old M8 and through catching up I told him what I had done. He asked why the hell low as it is less secure than null SOV and the planets are better in null as well.


Less secure?


I don't know how accurate that is but if it is actually less secure I would submit that it needs a police presence (either NPC or preferably Player police) and used to seperate out the empires in hi-sec space.

Not related but needed..... more Niarja-like choke points between the empires.


Thoughts?

You Miners think you have it so damn tough.  When I first started playing we didnt even have mining lasers.  You had to fly close to an asteroid.....pop a hatch and gnaw at it with your teeth.   - Bitter Vet

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2014-09-15 04:28:17 UTC
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There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2014-09-15 04:29:51 UTC
its only secure if you are part of the group who owns/patrols the space. Try to do the same thing in space tht you are not welcome and its a very different story.
Fr3akwave
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#4 - 2014-09-15 04:30:22 UTC
Tennej wrote:
After the last high sec nerf (PI) I decided that I was tired of paying 20% + hi sec tax on a spartan little resource. Since I haul around in low anyways, I moved all my colonies to low systems of .2 and .1 Recently, I ran into an old M8 and through catching up I told him what I had done. He asked why the hell low as it is less secure than null SOV and the planets are better in null as well.


Less secure?


I don't know how accurate that is but if it is actually less secure I would submit that it needs a police presence (either NPC or Player) and used to seperate out the empires in hi-sec space.

Not related but needed..... more Niarja-like choke points between the empires.


Thoughts?


Imagine null as a mafia controlled island. If you were part of said mafia, would you feel safe? I guess you would.
As for low sec, that is by definition an area that is owned by the empires but they are not doing police stuff and there is no CONCORD. Add police to it and you have high sec.
Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
#5 - 2014-09-15 04:31:28 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
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Ya hindsight being what it is...you are probably right.

You Miners think you have it so damn tough.  When I first started playing we didnt even have mining lasers.  You had to fly close to an asteroid.....pop a hatch and gnaw at it with your teeth.   - Bitter Vet

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#6 - 2014-09-15 04:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Tennej wrote:
Less secure?

I don't know how accurate that is but if it is actually less secure I would submit that it needs a police presence (either NPC or preferably Player police) and used to seperate out the empires in hi-sec space.

Thoughts?

Less secure, no.

Less safe, depends on where in lowsec and where in nullsec.

My industry alt runs all PI in NPC null and pays 7.5% POCO tax. Where that is located is an area where safety is relatively easily managed, although it's less secure than lowsec.

I'm sure I could find safe locations in lowsec too, but in the areas of lowsec I operate, traffic is higher than in nullsec. It's much easier for me to operate my PI in nullsec than it is in lowsec and when I have products to bring out to highsec, I've never had a problem.

In many respects I agree that nullsec is a better and safer option for PI than lowsec, but it depends on area and how good you are at managing risk.

On the second part: wat? That makes no sense that I can fathom. Can you explain that a bit more?
Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
#7 - 2014-09-15 04:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennej
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Tennej wrote:
Less secure?

I don't know how accurate that is but if it is actually less secure I would submit that it needs a police presence (either NPC or preferably Player police) and used to seperate out the empires in hi-sec space.

Thoughts?

Less secure, no.

Less safe, depends on where in lowsec and where in nullsec.

My industry alt runs all PI in NPC null and pays 7.5% POCO tax. Where that is located is an area where safety is relatively easily managed, although it's less secure than lowsec.

I'm sure I could find safe locations in lowsec too, but in the areas of lowsec I operate, traffic is higher than in nullsec. It's much easier for me to operate my PI in nullsec than it is in lowsec and when I have products to bring out to highsec, I've never had a problem.

In many respects I agree that nullsec is a better and safer option for PI than lowsec, but it depends on area and how good you are at managing risk.

On the second part: wat? That makes no sense that I can fathom. Can you explain that a bit more?


Surround the 4 empires with low and then add NPC police, or even better, a player run police response force so as to add another game mechanic to provide PvP content and at the same time generate ISK for the pilot choosing to play as a low sec "Cop". Make this police response force specific to the areas of low-sec adjoining the Empires (chokepoints). Leave the rest of low sec as is.

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying not to make a wall of text or "ramble" anymore. Big smile

You Miners think you have it so damn tough.  When I first started playing we didnt even have mining lasers.  You had to fly close to an asteroid.....pop a hatch and gnaw at it with your teeth.   - Bitter Vet

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#8 - 2014-09-15 05:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Tennej wrote:
Surround the 4 empires with low and then add NPC police or even better a player-run police response force so as to add another mechanic to the game to provide PvP content while at the same time generate ISK for the pilot choosing to play as a low sec "Cop".

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying not to make a wall of text.

No need to apologise.

In general isn't high already linked to null through lowsec? There are only a few highsec locations that connect directly to nullsec, Orvolle being one that I sometimes use direct into Syndicate, but for the most part, highsec has lowsec areas before nullsec areas.

So maybe the first part is mostly already there.

But if I understand correctly, you are suggessting that nullsec should be naturally less safe than lowsec and to increase the safety of lowsec, a police force should be introduced, npc or player run, into lowsec?

Is that correct? The rest of my answer is based on my assumption being correct.

Safety is not the same as security. Security determines already what NPC assistance is available to you, what ships can do in space and what modules will work.

The introduction of an npc police force into lowsec, would in my opinion, be a bad idea, primarily because it seems a huge overkill for a small problem.

The only time you should ever be vulnerable conducting PI is when tranferring between a POCO and your ship. At no other point should you be anywhere near trouble (travel not being specific to PI). For colony maintence you don't even need to be in the same system if you have the right skills and to transfer between planet<->POCO, you can be in space anywhere in system (eg. Cloaked at a safe).

Your safety is your own responsibility, no matter what the security status of the system is and introducing NPC based police into lowsec won't make it safer, just more secure. Safety/Risk is driven by players and a determined player will find a way to kill you if you don't manage your safety yourself, no matter what npc assistance is available to you. Introducing npc police into low could actually lead to less safety, because a number of players would assume they are safer and be less responsible than they have to be now.

As for a player-run police, I guess this would be like a militia arrangement, but instead of enlisting in a militia, you enlist in a police force and have access to missions and loyalty points for killing pirates and stuff. Don't know what sort of mechanics you envisage for it, but Corps and Alliances and your ability to make friends already provides this functionality. To be blunt, if I was running PI in lowsec, I wouldn't trust another player simply because they were enlisted into a Police Force. Sounds like a sanctioned gank squad. First rule of EvE still applies. Trust no one, especially me. If I could kill you by enlisting in the police, I'd do it in an instant.

Just my 0.02 wall of text style. There's more, but this is already long enough.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#9 - 2014-09-15 15:19:32 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#10 - 2014-09-15 23:23:52 UTC
Low security space is actually quite safe if you keep an eye out. Null is even safe if you know what you're doing and find the right areas. You can mine, rat, or do PI for hours without seeing another soul if you find the right area and right time of day. I have been venturing through them, doing activities, and only lost a handful of ships over the years when I decided to engage people.

Have only been caught once when I wasn't wanting to be caught, and that was because I was a noob and didn't know what I was doing at the time.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-09-16 01:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
I've never worked in null SOV but I have done some PI in null. In my experience, low is better ISK/effort - the haul is less of a PITA and you don't have to contend with bubbles.

However, two of my characters are in a WH. I wouldn't say WH PI is a godsend resource-wise vs null (especially when I share it with ~7 corp mates) but it's actually safer than low-sec because there's just nobody around.

But if you're a primarily high-sec player you should do your PI in low-sec. As you mentioned, tax rates in high-sec are absolute bonkers. Unless you own the POCO and set corp tax to 0%, you can definitely find a better tax rate in most low systems.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#12 - 2014-09-16 02:18:00 UTC
Low Sec can't be compared to Null Sov. Null Pirate and WH can.

If we had half the direct connections to Null pirate space we do to Wormhole space, I'm sure you would see more people out there.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2014-09-16 03:20:48 UTC
Rowells wrote:
its only secure if you are part of the group who owns/patrols the space. Try to do the same thing in space tht you are not welcome and its a very different story.


I dunno, a lot of lowsec is pretty dead. even the lively parts are pretty dead at certain hours.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
#14 - 2014-09-16 06:30:31 UTC
Based on all the feedback...... which I appreciate btw...... Low still seems like the best choice and I'm sticking with it.


Thanks

You Miners think you have it so damn tough.  When I first started playing we didnt even have mining lasers.  You had to fly close to an asteroid.....pop a hatch and gnaw at it with your teeth.   - Bitter Vet

ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#15 - 2014-09-16 08:22:06 UTC
This topic has been moved to the Features and Ideas Discussion.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL

Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-09-16 09:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
On second thought, disregard my suggestion here.

Hey guys.

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#17 - 2014-09-16 14:08:48 UTC
Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
#18 - 2014-09-22 01:41:17 UTC
Outstanding.... no kill rights to aquire and sell from attacks in low sec either. At least the fail gate camp didn't get me.

You Miners think you have it so damn tough.  When I first started playing we didnt even have mining lasers.  You had to fly close to an asteroid.....pop a hatch and gnaw at it with your teeth.   - Bitter Vet