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Retriever or mackinaw?
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#21 - 2014-09-13 05:21:50 UTC
Quote:
You keep mentioning gangs.
That also makes no sense.
Gangs do not balance ships.
And not everyone "has a gang" at their disposal every time they want to visit a belt.
You're advocating some real pain in the butt restrictions.
Guys behind keyboards at CCP do the balancing.
The Hulk should be able to hold its own vs a crappy little destroyer.


The hulk can hold its own against a crappy little destroyer. You have no clue about ganking mechanics.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-09-13 07:07:38 UTC
Personally, I'd recommend the Procurer, or Skiff if you want to invest that far.

Yes, it has a smaller hold, and yes, it is a little slower than a Covetor or Hulk. The difference is not huge, however, in how much ore you put in the hangar.

But the real issue (I believe) is gankers. Covetors and Hulks are like foil and fold in seconds. Very little effort required by gankers. Retrievers and Mackinaws are a bit better, but still cheaply destroyed by a pretty small group of Catalysts (usually, 3 or 4 will burn a retriever before Concord arrives).

Procurers and Skiffs have the best tank by far. Sure, they are not invulnerable, and I won't claim they never get ganked, but in months of mining rather often, my experience has been it is ALWAYS one of te other 4 that get hit; the Procurers and Skiffs take a significantly greater investment in ships to kill in time.

Survivability before greed :)
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-09-14 15:19:45 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
I will likely never have any of my miners use Exhumers: their cost-to-durability ratio is far to high to justify the extra yield in my eyes. Cheaper hulls are far less expensive to replace and make far less appealing targets.

This.

Get in a Retriever, and accept the losses as/if they come. Easy enough to replacement.
If you want to go T2, grab a Skiff.

Assuming high-sec here. In null, all the classes have their use, and if you're docking upon neuts in local the Mack is fine.

Hey guys.
Iain Cariaba
#24 - 2014-09-14 20:36:16 UTC
Sister Bertrille wrote:
No its not.
Its way out of balance.

Mining barges are probably the most balanced ships in the game right now, provided you use them for their intended roles.

Sister Bertrille wrote:
Destroyer vs Hulk
Capable pilots in both ships.
Destroyer almost always wins.

Trying to compare combat ships to mining ships in this aspect is like trying to compare a lilly pad to the Loch Ness Monster. Sure both exist in the water, but that's the only comparison between the two.

Sister Bertrille wrote:
Skill time to use that destroyer equals doodley squat compared to the skill time of takes to be that Hulk pilot.

As it should, the Hulk being a t2 ship and all. You'll find the train time between a destroyer and a Covetor to be comparable though.

Sister Bertrille wrote:
To put it into another context:
What sane ORE manufacturer is going to design/build a ship that is that expensive and cant even stand up to a cheap little destroyer or two.
Makes no sense at all.
A ship of that stature should only have to worry about battlecruisers and up.
CCP need to make some serious changes to ORE boats.

Nope, makes perfect sense. Who would make a ship that expensive that can't stand up to a cheap little destroyer? The people who make the Procurer and the Skiff, which can stand up to stuff a lot meaner than a destroyer. Each mining barge and exhumer has a role it fills. If you fly them inside that role, then they are awesome ships. Fly them outside that role, however, and you're just another carebear waiting to get ganked.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#25 - 2014-09-15 02:19:44 UTC
Fancy Bear wrote:
Is slightly more ore hold and 10% faster mining speed really worth the massive SP sink and significant ISK cost?

Am I missing something? Input from the miners please.
The answer for a dedicated miner is yes, it's worth it. The answer for somebody who wants to try other aspects of Eve is no, spend your SP on something else for now.

The way you phrase the question makes me think that the answer for you is no.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#26 - 2014-09-15 04:16:44 UTC
Let's clarify this once more;

A hulk can tank a dessie.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#27 - 2014-09-15 07:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
Cipher Jones wrote:
Let's clarify this once more;
A hulk can tank a dessie.


As with most things it depends.

If its a no tank, 3 Upgrades Hulk no. If it has a DC2 ect ect them most likely (System sec also have a big effect) .


As for Mack vs Ret. There are a lot of small things that make a Mack with it.

More Tank , you can tank belt rats in a 0.5 system (faction spawn and all). Less worrying about killing the rats.
More Yield. Speaks for itself.
More drones. you can have a flight on mining drones and combats - more yield.
Bigger hold - more yield indirectly.

With 10% more yield , 20% more space and the yield from drones you could easily make 20-50% more than a Ret.

Edit ,

Assuming you make like 10Mil and hour with a Ret , It would take 75 hours or less ( less than a month with 3 hours a day) to pay for a Mack with the Mack's bonuses.

Take that as you will.
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