Player Features and Ideas Discussion

New game mechanic idea.



Consider this suggested mechanic as taking existing stealth technology, current clandestine role play as spies, and mixing these together, with a new toy, to create The Operative, the go-to-guy when you need to slow down an enemy's war machine production lines, or sabotage their defenses to empower a carefully times attack.

Or just a guy who runs around the galaxy sticking his hand in your cookie jar while you are not looking.

---

"Carebears". I smile when I hear that name, because it is intended to be derogatory, but I have come to associate it with a breed of players possessed of a steely resolve few PvPers can claim. Certainly, gankers fall woefully short.

And before those persons get too upset, ask yourself what it is like to sit in a tin can without any support, no weapons worth mentioning, and pretty much just hope you don't get attacked today.

But when there is ice, we have to be out there and mine it. Or if we are haulers, then when a good deal is found, we need to jump on it and go.

It puts ISK in our pocket... Well, most of time. A swarm of pirates can sure make a mess of our carefully laid plans. But "...of Mice and Men", right? It is boring. It is dull and dangerous. But it is what we have chosen, at least for now, and it is our way to be able to try to afford doing whatever else we enjoy.

PvPers, and -especially- gankers, sit around comfortably until they feel like some action, undock, do their thing for a bit, and when they are tired, go dock again. And probably go log into an Alt industrialist toon to make sure the ISk keeps flowing to their PvP identities.

We 'real' (main or -only- character) miners/haulers/et al must sit for long periods of time. Either not moving, or doing so in a -very- predictable way. We are proverbial sitting ducks, but we do it anyway. Our only defense is vigilance, and we have to maintain that for long periods of boring duty, or risk dying in a blaze of fire. But we keep undocking and going out there and doing it.

You call us Carebears? I'm going to take that as a compliment, because I think it means mine are way bigger than yours, -and- made of steel.

But I digress. Players at that stage in this game who are struggling to stay solvent often avoid PvP, not because they are scared, but because they aren't stupid. We haven't trained for it. We know we'd lose. And it does'nt make us any ISK; it is a sinkhole for ISK.

But I like stealth. I'm patient, and able to wait a long time for the right moment if there is reward for it. I like hacking. And I do have a big pair. I would attack a player, or their property, if there was a mechanic that made it possible. I'd fly to nullsec and risk detection and likely subsequent annihilation if there was some serious reward for doing so.

Such as? Electronically siphon some funds from a corps wallet while sitting cloaked in the shadow of their base guns? Where one slip of the controls will reveal my position and instantly bring the wrath of those guns (and any residents) down on my very lightly protected head?

What about sapping or sabotage?

The next posts contain a story I wrote; the best way I know to express how this might work in the game...

“Hey friend, you just get in from the fields”?

It still surprised me that people could tell I was a miner. We didn't have a uniform, we came from all different walks of life, races, politics... what did we have in common that guys like this one could read?

“Fine, friend. And you”? Was my guarded reply.

“Never better, never better. In fact, I have something a smart guy like you might just be able to use to get ahead”.

Here we go, I thought. “Yeah, and what would that be”?

I almost laughed when he looked around the bar checking to see if anyone was paying us too much attention. I actually did choke on my beer when he reached inside his jacket to draw something out.

It was immediately apparent that it was some kind of augmentation, but its nature was not known to me.

“Look, I know how this sounds. A thousand times a day someone starts a conversation just like this one. I wouldn't blame you if you walked away...”.

“I'd prefer if -you- walked away. I was already here enjoying some down time”. No need to make this easy for him, right?

He responded with a small smile. “I hear you, but hear me out before you send me packing”. He nudged the implant on the bar between us. “You don't know what this does, do you”? He didn't really wait for an answer. “This is a prototype model providing Counter Security functionality. It essentially gives the owner the ability to slice into the systems of capsuleer-owned stations and manipulate certain functions. Limited mind you, limited, but you could, say, redirect some funds into your own account – an extremely small percentage only, else you'd trigger alarms, but the bigger the target you went after, the bigger the payout, right? You could override certain security systems to access the station's cargo tractors – perhaps to move an explosive device into a sensitive area? Oh, nothing so big as what would destroy the station. No no, but enough to disrupt some operations for a while – maybe take a factory offline for a few days. If you become really skilled, though, you might just manage to do something very impressive, like bring the station shield down for a short time. Someone might pay you big iskies for that kind of service, don't you think”?

I was still suspicious, but damn it, I was curious too. “Sounds way too good to be true. Not interested”.

He knew that was a lie. “Look, you get up close, real close, in a cloaked ship. The range of this is real short; you'd normally loose cloak by proximity to the station. The device helps to stabilize your cloaking systems though, lets you get closer than normal, but if you screw up you not only set off their security systems, but the implant will shut off, taking your cloak with it; you'll be sitting right under their station guns and bright on their sensors. You know what those will do to a frigate”.

“So I'd take something bigger”, but he was shaking his head before I finished my thought.

“Can't stabilize the cloak on anything bigger than a frigate for getting up close; overloads the implant and fries your brain. It's a frigate or nothing”.

My personal alarm systems were screaming at me not to go for it. It was foolish. Too good to be true. There was no way it could work. Why hadn't anyone heard of it before. Damn, that was a really good question.

“Why haven't I heard of this before”?

“Like I sad, friend, it is a prototype – you are looking at the first working model”.

Okay, it was a stupid question. So I thought some more, really just looking for some way to convince myself this was bogus. Trouble is, I wanted it to be true.

“Alright, why aren't you flooding the market with these things”?

“I was wondering if you'd ever ask”, he replied, looking a bit smug. I think he knew he had me already, just so long as he didn't drop the ball while I convinced myself I needed what he was selling. “First, we just aren't ready to mass produce; that takes capital, and we need to sell a few nits to make that happen. Second, and even more important, this will be far more effective if its existence is not generally know. It will probably take a long time to work up some electronic defense against it, and of course we'll continue to improve its abilities, so that might just be the usual tech-race. But a corp can increase patrols, develop tactics to look for cloaked ships around their stations. Bunch of things they might come up with to make it harder to get into position undetected. But if they don't know about it....”, he raised his hands in a 'what can they do' gesture.

There was more back and forth, but I already knew I was going to buy the damn thing; arguing further was merely for the sake of appearances.

[cont]

Eighty million ISK poorer, I decided to head back to base and my Helios, then take the step into NulSec to find out if this thing really worked.

This could end up being far more expensive than the augmentation itself.

- - - - -

I won't mention the name of the corporation whose station now filled my screen; probably best I never let anyone know.

It had taken a very long time to get here. You don't just set a course and jump-jump-jump in LowSec, and you can't even be sure you'll warp all the way to your destination in NulSec due to devilish Interdiction devices.

No, if you really want to give yourself a better chance than pure blind luck, you take your time, you approach gates at a distance, and you watch for a while before taking the plunge and jumping through.

Now I had been sitting in space, stationary and cloaked, some 200km away from my target, just watching the comings and goings, ad general activity. I was looking for an approach where the traffic wouldn't accidentally bump into me and de-cloak my ship.

I noted an apparently 'dead' area below and directly back from the main docking port. No one ever seemed to pass by there. I warped in to 10km, then carefully made my way to my chosen position, being very careful to stay away from the sentry guns, and the station itself.

I began approaching the station, then stopped while still 2,500m out. I checked and rechecked that the new implant was online. The range for hacking was 1,500m. With the implant in place, I was assured I could get within 1,000m before proximity de-cloaking, but my training was yelling at me that 2,000m was the closest. I looked out the starboard view port, and just 5km away, looking so close I could touch it, was a sentry gun.

Despite what the salesman had suggested, I did not know what one of these would do to a frigate, but it looked really big to me, and I fervently hoped I wouldn't find the answer to that question today.

My hands were sweating as I eased the throttles open a crack, and crept closer to the station. My eyes were glued to the distance readout, and held my breath as the numbers slipped below 2000.

I flashed my attention to the cloaking panel – still serenely pulsing green – then back to the distance readout, now reporting 1844 and falling. My attention bounced back and forth between the two readouts like a ping pong ball in a game between experts, until I eased the throttles closed, and coasted to a stop reading 1471.

I sat back from the controls, wiping my hands and forehead clean of sweat, and concentrated n getting my heart rate back to something approximating normal.

When I was confident my hands would not shake, I mentally interfaced with the Counter Security implant, then brought the hacking screen up on my console, and slaved it to the implant. I searched for and located my target; the electronic signature of the corporate wallet. I locked onto it, and reached to activate the hack, just as movement caught my eye.

A mixed group of frigates had appeared above me, moving towards the station and the docking platform. I had become so tunnel visioned I hadn't even seen them on my overview. Distances were no threat - yet – be they were coming closer. I frantically tried to judge if any would come close enough to de-cloak me, but it was impossible to eyeball.

A Slasher looked like it was aimed at my cockpit, looming larger and larger while the distance to target was spooling down in a manner that made me feel he was intending to ram me. But he couldn't see me, right? I stared again at the cloaking panel, and it stared back with it's slowly blinking emerald eye.

I had just enough presence of mind to preselect a possible warp-to location, then rechecked my instruments on the Slasher. It was showing a rapidly increasing angular velocity, and when I looked again out the overhead view port, I could see it was not coming straight at me. I still didn't know how close it would pass, or even if it would stay on its present course.

I followed its range readout, watching the numbers falling towards 2,000. The implant would only stabilize the cloak against the station, compensating for the gravimetric and electronic distortions that could collapse a cloak. Just the station's emissions, nothing else.

With my finger poised over the 'Warp-to' icon, I held my breath as the numbers slowed, stopped at 2203, then began to climb again. By now I was drenched in sweat. As the second surge of adrenalin in just a few seconds flushed out of my bloodstream, a wave of exhaustion hit me, and I hung my head and closed my eyes for a few moments while I waited for it to pass.

I watched while the last of the frigates were towed inside, and this time checked the overview -and- D-Scan for any ships. It looked clear.

[cont]

THE MECHANICS

It is so hard to find games with a good application of some form of stealth. That old game Thief comes to mind, as does Splinter Cell.


In EVE, we have some stealth capabilities, but it seems we could do so much more with it.
At present, there is extremely little a new-ish player can do about gankers. And while combat PvP might be suggested as an alternative to mining (if not a means to respond to gankers - who can ever find the little buggers anyway) not everyone can afford to repeatedly lose a ship capable of being competitive in Combat PvP, and more to the point, not everyone wants to be involved in the Whack-a-Mole chaos of it, and spend their training time building sp in something else.
While everyone is aware of Combat PvP, and many recognize Market PvP, there is also Covert/Clandestine PvP. This usually takes the form of spying, but covert ops ships are so obviously suited to working in the shadows, it seems the most natural thing to move towards developing their roles further fr those who enjoy a patent, tactical approach to an MMO.

This concept attempts to address these three items.

The mechanics could be very simple indeed. The extant relic/data interface could be employed for breaking into corporate computer systems.

The implant would be a new Skill Hardwiring type. Counter Security, with perhaps a range of choices...

• Slot 6 – Increases chance to successfully hack a corporate computer.
• Slot 7 – Enable Siphon ISK. Better versions increase amount of ISK stolen.
• Slot 8 – Enable Sapper. Better versions increases downtime of targeted station facility (Industry for example).
• Slot 9 – Enable Command Override. Better versions increase downtime of station shield.

Siphon, Sapper, and Command Override all require a mid-slot module be fitted to the ship as in Relic and Data analyzers. Each of these modules has its own skill tree.

Having a slot 7, 8, or 9 implant of this type installed reduces the de-cloak range of target-able bodies to 1,000m.

Option

• Reduce range another 250m per additional slot 7, 8, or 9 implant of this type
• Reduce range 100m per skill level of the slot 6 implant.
• Possible then to maintain cloak at zero range of a target-able structure (only).

Limitations
For Siphon ISK:

• The percentage of the corp wallet taken should be very small, say 0.01%.
• A unique computer system cannot be hacked more than once every hour.
• A player cannot attempt to hack the same corporation, no matter how many locations they have, more than once every 24 hours, regardless of whether the hack attempt was successful or not.
• To avoid creating an imbalance where a player succeeds in hacking an extremely wealthy corporation, a cap should be placed on the amount taken.

For Sapper:
A successful sap attempt...

• halts or impairs the targeted facility's function for a period appropriate to the skill level of the attack
• starts a sap immunity clock preventing further attacks for some period 1 week? 4 weeks?

An unsuccessful sap attempt starts a 24 hour immunity to sap attempt clock.

For Command Override:
Immunity clocks as for Sapper. A successful attempt brings the POS shield down for n * 10 minutes? n hours?


Player consequences of any Counter Security attack:

• If successful – none.
• If unsuccessful, it is registered as if the player opened fire on the station. All mechanics to follow this established structure according to security status of system where this occurred.

Caveat: NPC responses will target the payers pod! If in HiSec, therefore, the player is toast as there is no escaping Concord. :)

Player Detection and Identification:
If a player attack of this type is unsuccessful, the consequences are pretty obvious as NPC defenses are triggered.

If a player is successful, detection of stolen ISK will depend on someone paying attention to the computerized books and spotting the aberrant entries – missing information such as client, type, or description. Sapping and bringing down shields are far more obvious of course, and detection is virtually guaranteed.

But what about identifying the offender? As happens in the real world, this will require vigilance and time to attempt to determine the culprit. It is, and should be, far from guaranteed that the culprit will be found.

The purpose of the limitations is to maintain balance. This activity should be irritating to a corporation without being devastating in and of itself. It is more about psychology - and putting some ISK in the perpetrator's pocket.

I find this a satisfying parallel to the irritation felt by myself (and many miners and haulers alike) with the predations of gankers. And while their activities might be rather devastating to a captain who loses his game-life savings which he had invested in the cargo he just lost, the mechanic I herein suggest is not nearly so significant to a corporation.

So, CCP, what say you? Interested?

I'm pretty sure most big corps will disapprove – anything that upsets their apple cart and tea-time will probably not be welcomed. But it sure as hell would be fun for the lone wolves amongst us who have the patience to get in and get out unseen, laughing all the way to the bank...

...or making a pretty cloud in space as the frozen particles of our remains glitter in the star light.

I've got a spare "Reading Comprehension" skillbook lying around here somewhere. You need to read it.

To spoon feed you this time... the risk is complete destruction of your ship and pod. No "one" might stop you, but you certainly can fail.

Or if this carries more meaning for you... Gankers can attack and destroy ships with no one to stop them. I might ask them, "what is wrong with you".

Gate campers... similar story. If they know what they're doing, the results are pretty much inevitable for a hauler captain. I wonder what could be wrong with them?

No, I think what you are really saying is that you are offended that a carebear wants to do to others what they have been doing to us - causing you grief with "no one to stop us"

Except, wait! I've actually been far more fair than gankers and gate campers because I can fail, miserably. I don't know if you've ever tried to hack LoSec relic or data sites, but I assure you, sometimes you -are- going to fail.

You just don't like the possibility of a lowly Carebear pulling your pigtails :)

Chance of failure in hacking is not comparable to player driven intervention.

You believe that your random chance to fail at the cost of a measly ship makes this griefing "fair," but really you are still trapped in your carebear mentality. You getting ganked on a gate, in a mission, mining etc are all avoidable by having friends, properly fitting your ship, being vigilant with dscan or simply understand aggression mechanics.

These are all pilot and individual led methods to avoid failure.

As stated, the random chance die is not comparable to player knowledge as a balancing factor for avoidance.

So please answer Danika's question.

How is this proposal not ridiculously exploitable and the machinations of a deranged carebear?

Maybe you should plug it in, as I have no idea how you got "RP Forum" from "Features & Ideas Discussion."

I am quite unsurprised by the knee-jerk responses thus far.

The instant anyone suggests something that doesn't fit -your- idea of how the game ought to be played, you start quoting your own PvP mentality.

PvP is legitimate play, of course, but so is my idea.

EVERY argument revolves around your fixed ideas that a PvP combat approach is the only approach. anything that you cannot defend against using your preferred method (shoot it) meets with your automatic derision.

That's okay, but damn, listen to you getting personal with me, and you guys call carebears whiners. *lol*

What I'd like to hear is if there are any who would enjoy PvP on a more covert level, who would like to see more development towards this field, some interesting ways to utilize their covert frigates, etc.

If this mechanic I've suggested doesn't fly, that's fine. I'd still like to hear if there are other "Carebears" and Lone Wolves out there who actually would delve into Covert PvP i such mechanics were introduced. Things that would appeal to those more interested in chess than paintball.

OP is essentially proposing a singleplayer way of griefing people in a multiplayer game. Not interaction, just a minigame and voilá, he can steal from other players.

-10000000

Fit a tank. Use a skiff/procurer. mine aligned. Watch local. Watch dscan. Watch overview at the very least. Go to a quiet system. Use boosts to further increase your buffer tank.

Don't be an idiot.


There, you have several solutions. Now, explain to me how I stop a cloaked ship floating somewhere in space from stealing my corp's stuff and ******* up my industry.