These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#661 - 2014-09-12 12:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?


It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so.
...
Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.

No, it kind of is your job to do this.

No, it kind of isn't. Because as Falcon said, the second they start giving concrete examples, the real douch bags of the game community will start seeing just how close to that line they can get. It's in the nature of a douche bag to push and test limits, even ones as simply ridiculous as these.

It's better that CCP leave themselves the flexibility in their position they have now so they can escort the undesireables to the door with alacrity.


It kind of is because if you don't give a solid baseline of what is acceptable & what isn't then you will always have cases where one guy was permenantly banned for scamming & another guy was left alone for calling someones house & threatening to kill them because they ganked his pixel ship. Especially more so when you market your game as 'Play the villain'.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#662 - 2014-09-12 12:29:16 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
At least this isn't a game where GMs decide that their employer's previous public statement about an exploit is invalid because of personal and flawed opinions on risk and game mechanics, or a game where GMs spontaneously decide that it's against the EULA to claim your character as the alt of another even when it happens to be true. No, this is a game where I trust GMs to be consistent, dispassionate, and informed. I'm sure every ban is deserved and the sentences proportionate to the crime.

Nothing to worry about.



I'll trust the word of a GM more than someone who got banned and goes "nono, i did nothing at all, I wasn't even there".


That's the whole problem. You can't trust any system of punishment where the punishment is applied inconsistently and where the rules are not clearly defined. Whether the latter person in your example was right or not, you're left with questions and CCP can no longer afford questions. This issue is now all over the Eve sections of the internet, this is doing more harm to CCP's reputation than most of the speculative reasons as to the bans (which we still don't know were the reason).
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#663 - 2014-09-12 12:35:22 UTC
Myles Wong wrote:
Why do so many people insist that CCP explain themselves? There seems to be some broad assumption that it's all
bonus room related. There is the possibility this is the result of a long time investigation. Perhaps CCP has been
observing these players behaviours and actions of a period of time and made a decision based on evidence they
gathered. At any rate if the community insists on evidence/explanations/clarifications then CCP would have to
jeapordize any active investigations by giving specific details. Some of the same people making real life
comparisons have repeatedly in the past stated real life comparisons are irrelevant. Why the change of heart? It
truly is none of our business why certain individuals got banned. It's almost as if common sense suddenly became a
commodity and some people are trying to trade in counterfeit stock.


When paying for a product or service, it's nice to know what to expect out of it?


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Miles Parabellum
Core Collapse Inc
#664 - 2014-09-12 12:42:04 UTC
Cismet wrote:

... and CCP can no longer afford questions...


Because Eve is dying?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#665 - 2014-09-12 12:47:30 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Cismet wrote:
Well, not that I expect anyone to care, but it's important that CCP understand. I just cancelled my subscription. CCP's attitude in this matter is utterly unconscionable and Falcon's passive aggressive and borderline insulting posts are unacceptable. I can only hope that CCP learn the hard way when subscriber numbers drop.

Congratulations Falcon, hope you're proud.


You know it's bad when he gets moderated by ISD's for personal attacks.


You noticed that too did you? I wasn't gonna say anything...

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#666 - 2014-09-12 12:48:13 UTC
Myles Wong wrote:
Would love to stay and continue beating this horse. Unfortunately I have a job. Have fun losing the argument.


Why, yes! I think I will indeed have an apple pie with that!


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2014-09-12 12:48:27 UTC
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?


It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so.
...
Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.

No, it kind of is your job to do this.

No, it kind of isn't. Because as Falcon said, the second they start giving concrete examples, the real douch bags of the game community will start seeing just how close to that line they can get.

And they'll be banned, except this time we can say "yeah they were cunts, just goes to show you shouldn't try to skirt CCP's rules."

Adding specificity does not remove flexibility.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#668 - 2014-09-12 12:49:16 UTC
Is that word seriously not censored? lol

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#669 - 2014-09-12 12:49:29 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


When paying for a product or service, it's nice to know what to expect out of it?


I guess it depends on your expectations.

For instance, I expect to log in daily to find entertaining threadnoughts.

I'm rarely disappointed.

Mr Epeen Cool
Dave stark
#670 - 2014-09-12 12:52:29 UTC
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
So is the line for real-life harassment going to remain vague?

Some of us enjoy harming other players with a passion, and the boundaries between character and person are bound to be crossed without clear guidelines on what isn't allowed.

If you think you might have crossed a line, you probably did. Clear lines would only be abused and make a mess for the GMs. With a grey area, they can better decide on a case by case basis without internet lawyers going "technically" on them.


What if I don't even have any reason to think it crossed the line?

Maybe I'm just bumping some miners and suddenly one of them thinks I'm harassing them in particular?

CCP apparently gets to decide what harassment is, with no clear precedence of what harassment is within EVEs context.


Funny how that works, it being their game and all.


yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#671 - 2014-09-12 12:58:26 UTC
Quote:
yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


I dont get that you don't it, get it?
Simply stay in the game and scam all day long. Dont invite your victim to ts and mock him for hours but take the scammed isk and assets -> GG,no ban.
easy peasy!

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!
Dave stark
#672 - 2014-09-12 13:03:06 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
Quote:
yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


I dont get that you don't it, get it?
Simply stay in the game and scam all day long. Dont invite your victim to ts and mock him for hours but take the scammed isk and assets -> GG,no ban.
easy peasy!

easy, you're clearly talking about one specific incident. i am not, i'm not talking about one specific thing.

emergent content is contantly changing and evolving as people get "wise" to various scams etc. without a set of guidelines there's no way to know what is or isn't going to get you banhammered for finding new ways to make isk without subjecting yourself to eve's tedious and hideous pve.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#673 - 2014-09-12 13:03:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


There are only two rules of any importance and they are not hard to understand.

1) Don't **** with newbs.
2) Keep it in the game.

Like I said before. If you don't know when you are breaking one of these rules, you are too stupid to be a part of the community.

Mr Epeen Cool
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#674 - 2014-09-12 13:09:46 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
What concerns me (and frankly should concern everyone) is people are being banned because of who their friends are.


Show me your friends and I will tell you who you are - unknown

No tears shed for anyone who got banned.
Dave stark
#675 - 2014-09-12 13:12:25 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


There are only two rules of any importance and they are not hard to understand.

1) Don't **** with newbs.
2) Keep it in the game.

Like I said before. If you don't know when you are breaking one of these rules, you are too stupid to be a part of the community.

Mr Epeen Cool


so racism and real life threats are fine as long as i keep it in the game, and it's not a new player?
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#676 - 2014-09-12 13:13:53 UTC
Something I was going to post however I figured that it would result in some fancy slanty text and an ISD tag. (And no this was not a personal attack, it's just you know vague to know, you know?) So I just figured I'd write this. Keep your hands up, don't put them down. DJ Turn up that song! We'll dance until sun comes up!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#677 - 2014-09-12 13:14:59 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
Quote:
yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


I dont get that you don't it, get it?
Simply stay in the game and scam all day long. Dont invite your victim to ts and mock him for hours but take the scammed isk and assets -> GG,no ban.
easy peasy!


This isn't even about that anymore. Anyone that kept doing the bonus room after the E1 debacle brought it on themselves, no matter how careful they were, they should have just steered clear of that hornet's nest if they didn't want a ban.

The problem is, as it has been SINCE the E1 thing, the inconsistency. The right hand not even being attached to the same body as the left. There's a HUGE disconnect in policy communication to the player base that's been filled with Falcon deciding that insulting a good portion of it is a healthy way for the company to handle it. I can imagine Falcon is pretty annoyed with it himself, so I'm entirely prepared to let that one slide to be honest, everyone is a bit heated.

But there is a reasonable middle ground that we can ALL come to, devs and players alike, no matter what you do in the game, or out of it - and that is our love of the game itself. Save for those that are only subbed for the sake of forum shitposting, of course, and you know exactly who you are. Those who do play the game though should not be shitposting, and should NOT be flippantly trivialising the concerns of other players no matter how trivial you have decided they are. Your subjective input is entirely invalid. For credibility, you must not exude morality, but common sense, rational discourse, and a good dose of humble ******* pie.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#678 - 2014-09-12 13:15:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


There are only two rules of any importance and they are not hard to understand.

1) Don't **** with newbs.
2) Keep it in the game.

Like I said before. If you don't know when you are breaking one of these rules, you are too stupid to be a part of the community.

Mr Epeen Cool


so racism and real life threats are fine as long as i keep it in the game, and it's not a new player?




From my understanding you can be racist as long as you are in faction warfare. (Clearly restrictions apply regarding this due to EVE lore.)

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#679 - 2014-09-12 13:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Dave Stark wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


yeah, it's fine that they get to decide it because it's their game.
except how can we follow their rules, because it's their game, if they don't tell us what they are?


There are only two rules of any importance and they are not hard to understand.

1) Don't **** with newbs.
2) Keep it in the game.

Like I said before. If you don't know when you are breaking one of these rules, you are too stupid to be a part of the community.

Mr Epeen Cool


so racism and real life threats are fine as long as i keep it in the game, and it's not a new player?


Not just that.

Racism, real life threats, and doxxing. [edit: Oh, and sexually explicit insults

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#680 - 2014-09-12 13:24:15 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


When paying for a product or service, it's nice to know what to expect out of it?


I guess it depends on your expectations.

For instance, I expect to log in daily to find entertaining threadnoughts.

I'm rarely disappointed.

Mr Epeen Cool


Me too Big smile I actually did nothing but sit with the game minimized while I practiced my Forum-Fu yesterday.

Aint lookin so good for today, too Big smile

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project