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Pre-CSM Summit Nullsec and Sov Thread

First post First post
Author
i hatechosingnames
Insert Corporation Name Here
#41 - 2014-09-11 22:18:50 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
:words:





I'd like the ability for Alliances to be able to bribe NPC 0.0 corps (ie Serpentis, Guristas etc) with LP so we can dictate their docking rights.

Similar to faction warfare where opposing militia cannot dock, with enough LP paid each month we become their militia and no one else can dock.
Skyy Dracon
Repercussus
Reverberation Project
#42 - 2014-09-11 22:34:18 UTC
Fixing null-sec isn't that challenging. The answer isn't going to be popular or well received by the lesser informed or less forward thinking players but the answer simply boils down to force projection.

Right now the major alliances are able to project serious amounts of force over almost any distance with plenty of time to catch RF timers etc. This is the root of the problems with Sov warfare. Unless you belong to one of the major coalitions you are mostly impotent and unable to stake out your own niche in the universe (without renting it from those same power blocs.

Remove Jump bridges for all but Covert/Black ops ships Reduce fuel costs and appropriate.
Remove Titan bridges for all but Covert/Black ops ships (reduce fuel consumption as appropriate.

Watch the coalitions devour themselves and finally allow small gangs to own/fight for space as was intended.

Allow Jump freighters to remain as is and increase/decrease their jump range as necessary to allow them to fuel the fighting.
Allow Covert Cyno's to function for Covert Ops ships.

The problems with Sov control and warfare now stem from our ability to attack any system at any time without fear of not being able to mount defenses of our own systems in time. Remove this ability from the major alliances and they will canibalize themselves and we will begin to see smaller groups of player excerpt control of "reasonable" tracts of space instead of the large swathes of "dead space" we have controlled by the larger alliances.

Look at your travel/combat logs for example of [RZR] Owned Tenal for example we own dozens of systems that rarely see use let alone PvP combat. Mush less combat for control f those systems. We own them simply because we can.
Skyy Dracon
Repercussus
Reverberation Project
#43 - 2014-09-11 22:38:29 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I hope sov is based on system activity and population. Should have to live in your space to own it.

like I said in my post on the topic in this thread take away jump bridges and non covert Cynos and the large alliances will dissolve into cannibalism leaving room for smaller entities to fill the subsequent voids.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-09-11 22:43:34 UTC
Fonac wrote:
... This should be nerfed, make an exponential increase of sov bills for every one more system you hold and make it way to expensive to own half the eden 0.0 landscape...

Just means they will break Alliances into 2-3 parts, keeping them in the Collation.
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#45 - 2014-09-11 22:44:59 UTC
don't believe the hype.

you make ask for some stuff but just bare in mind 'they don't do change by committee'

so if they come up with some B>S that nobody wants, just remember they wont do a thing to change it.

OF COURSE THE WILL, ITS NULL, THEY BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR YOU LOT!

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!

Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser

Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-09-11 22:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cherry Yeyo
MASSADEATH wrote:
Being one of the small null sec alliances that fights the CFC and goons daily here is my take.
Even though we have 1300 in alliance and in the range of 60+ capitals we can never field them or we will be crushed. The speed at which the enemy can bridge ships in our area makes most of our capital usage rare and ninja in fashion. (in fact that goes for subcapitals as well)


Your alliance and your insane leader are the ones who insist on living deep within enemy territory where you're almost perma-camped into station daily. Egged on by nutters like Gevlon Goblin.

Have you considered taking on someone your own size? Look at your counterparts in Black Legion and PASTA. They have discovered fun and enjoyment again in lowsec where they can take fights and use capitals without the apex forces of the galaxy pouncing on them.

Should a tiny alliance with a handful of capitals be able to take on an ancient organization who have been through trials and tribulations and built an efficient and well-funded war machine? Probably not, thats not balanced gameplay.

If what you've been doing for years isnt working perhaps try something different?

.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#47 - 2014-09-11 22:46:58 UTC
Skyy Dracon wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I hope sov is based on system activity and population. Should have to live in your space to own it.

like I said in my post on the topic in this thread take away jump bridges and non covert Cynos and the large alliances will dissolve into cannibalism leaving room for smaller entities to fill the subsequent voids.


I think you will also have to limit the head count of Alliances and remove Alliance to Alliance standings. Then let the cannibalism begin! Sauce with that? Twisted
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-09-11 22:49:32 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Fonac wrote:
... This should be nerfed, make an exponential increase of sov bills for every one more system you hold and make it way to expensive to own half the eden 0.0 landscape...

Just means they will break Alliances into 2-3 parts, keeping them in the Collation.



There must be counters to this. Even if there aren't it's still an issue, that sov is as cheap as it is... I agree however, I just didn't want to lengthen my post even further so I wrote it In as an example.
Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-09-11 22:51:54 UTC
Skyy Dracon wrote:
Fixing null-sec isn't that challenging

Nullsec will be balanced and fixed when Fozzie and Rise can answer this question: How do you counter 250 Archons without the node crashing, and also how do you counter 250 Archons sitting on a cyno-jammer.

.

Adrie Atticus
Circle Mercs
#50 - 2014-09-11 22:52:46 UTC
Fonac wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Fonac wrote:
... This should be nerfed, make an exponential increase of sov bills for every one more system you hold and make it way to expensive to own half the eden 0.0 landscape...

Just means they will break Alliances into 2-3 parts, keeping them in the Collation.



There must be counters to this. Even if there aren't it's still an issue, that sov is as cheap as it is... I agree however, I just didn't want to lengthen my post even further so I wrote it In as an example.


How can you limit human social interaction?
Noriko Mai
#51 - 2014-09-11 22:53:57 UTC
Smallholding (Dev Blog) is my little dream in this big pond.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Ace Echo
The Shadow Raiders
#52 - 2014-09-11 23:00:35 UTC
Some thoughts on sov:

There's plenty of incentive to be big. The blocs don't own the space 'Just because they can', although it might be a minor incentive. More systems meant more outposts, more industry slots, more systems for ratting, and more moon goo.

If CCP wants to make null a place less dominated by giant coalitions, they shouldn't give them a reason to grow big in the first place. Because, we all know that if there's any incentive for an action in eve, the players will capitalize on it, no matter how obscure or discouraging the devs make it.

I have to leave for dinner, so won't go into details, but that's my 2c.

If you can milk it, it's an udder.

Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-09-11 23:00:46 UTC
I have a few more tangential ideas on Sov..

The Grind, as it stands now, no one likes. It's a pain in the ass for both the attacking and defending fleets, anything that can be done to fix or lessen that should be.. but what that is? I don't know.

So, on to the tangential parts :)

Incursions.. They are finally viable in Nullsec, that's great, but still half the time are only going to be run to clear the Cynojammer.. My suggestion is it's a Sansha Invasion, they should be attacking Sov. The Outposts, the POS's, the POCO's, the PI equipment on the ground.. everything. And unopposed Incursion should withdraw with the space being listed as Sansha, and with nothing left.
It gives them a reason to run it, it also opens a chance for other Alliances to attack when they know much of their forces are occupied elsewhere.


Outpost Defences.. Anything else think it's silly that I can have guns for a small POS, but not for an Outpost? Outposts should by default able to have POS Guns.. ideally with upgrades, I'd like to see new lines of Anti-Capital/Super weapons.. "Doomsday" turrets, ECM that would be able to Jam a Mom or Titan, etc.. Something to make taking them a fight..


Gate Guns.. You own the system, why can't you put guns on them?


Gonna make a link to Incursions here again.. There are pirate NPC's in your space, and in some cases, pirate Sov bordering your space.. Seems kinda lame that all they do is just sit around in belts and gates.. Why not have them get a little smarter? Rogue Drones if I remember right will camp on JB's.. Expand this to the rest.. hell have they camp, and even randomly engage targets in your sov.. POS's.. Safespots.. Outposts.. The lower the sec, the stronger the NPC presence would be. And make it like belts, the longer they are ignored, the stronger they get.. One day maybe it's just a few ships.. ignored for few weeks it might turn into a strong NPC fleet.


I've intentionally avoided what to do about timers, and how much grinding you all are doing.. I'll let people who do far more of that than I go into that.. cause honestly, while I have some ideas, nothing I've thought out really jumps out to me as being a real solution, or even an improvement.. more of a just moving the pain around lol.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-09-11 23:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sniper Smith
Adrie Atticus wrote:
How can you limit human social interaction?

You can't.. I mean Coalitions already are an entity that doesn't formally exist in Eve's code, but yet has come to be. There's nothing you can do to make groups not work together.. If they can't do it under an ingame umbrella, then they just set each other blue make a few chat channels and a website, and you're off to the races.. see CFC.


Don't get me wrong, I love the idea that you want to happen, it just won't work.
Sigras
Conglomo
#55 - 2014-09-11 23:04:43 UTC
Cherry Yeyo wrote:
how do you counter 250 Archons sitting on a cyno-jammer.

The answer to that is simple... GO AROUND!

Sure you can slam your light infantry into an entrenched spartan phalanx formation, or you can not be an idiot and attack somewhere else!
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#56 - 2014-09-11 23:07:08 UTC
I'm sure it goes without saying that cracking the Sov nut is difficult problem that everyone wants solved.

What I address is this: Whoever gets credit for crafting the solution needs a reward like none other. I mean a solid gold medal with "I WON EVE" engraved in it with diamonds, to be presented in Iceland at a ceremony that would make the Queen jealous. Make it happen CCP.

Okay - on with the gear grinding
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#57 - 2014-09-11 23:16:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
- Change the Titan bridge mechanic from a "push" to a "pull" so that you actually have to put the ship at risk. That would still allow power projection but make it much more risky.

- Remove the immunity of Titans to conventional Warpdisruption and give them a Warpstrength of 25 instead.

- Limit Alliance-to-Alliance blue standing to 2-3 entitys.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-09-11 23:46:53 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
- Limit Alliance-to-Alliance blue standing to 2-3 entitys.
Then it'll be done on the Corp level.
There is nothing, NOTHING, you can do in Eve to keep people from working together.
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#59 - 2014-09-11 23:48:50 UTC
I think we all agree that EHP-based sov objectives generally suck. If we're going to have any EHP-based sov grinding things, it would be good if they encouraged fleets that arrived when the timer ticks over to fight, while minimizing the amount of boring shooting or repairing to be done if the other side doesn't show up. Somebody else has noted that these big EHP walls are a particularly strong example of "you must be this tall, or very, very stubborn, to ride."
My personal hobby-horse idea to make EHP at timer exit bigger than EHP long after timer exit is a slowly decaying resist profile on structures, instead of the current binary situation.

That said, timers encourage cramming as many warm bodies as possible into a system at a single moment, which is where I'd point my finger if asked why there are all these huge coalitions. The EHP walls are obnoxious but can be dealt with if you have sufficient tenacity. The fear that the other side will come up with more and scarier warm bodies is what produces the current cold-war-style clumping of alliances.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#60 - 2014-09-11 23:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
I wonder what the Nullsec changes will be...

-Major Edit-

Here's my 2 cents!

Nullsec needs a few tweaks, nothing major.

ArrowMake it easier for smaller groups to gain SOV.
ArrowMake it harder for larger entities to curbstomp smaller ones.
ArrowNerf Power Projection!

People at the top doesn't want change, they like things the way they are. For good reason! They've spent time and money to get where they are, they want to keep it like that. They'll say stupid **** like, "Null is fine" and "mechanics are good" and "we need more space added right beside us."

Fist off, this is all BS, Null is broken, a lemonade stand managed by 2 5yr olds has better mechanics then Nullsec. And tossing more Space anywhere will make people cry favoritism, depending on where its placed will dictate who's crying.

Nerf ******* Power Projection. Don't reduce ranges or fuel, no no no, Force the ******* Titans OUTSIDE THE POS SHIELDS! This...and this alone will allow renter alliances to tell their landlords to **** off! Its considered an exploit to interact with anything behind the POS forcefield. Except for a Titan bridge.

"But but but, the ass end of the Titan is outside the POS."

Yeah, good point.... But, can ya target it? Oh no you can't. Why not? Because its behind the forcefield! Even with its ass sticking out!



It seems like CCP has half an idea on what they're planning on, with a big 2 step iteration. Which is why posting a long ass multiple page "My idea of nullsec should be like this." Thread. Is kinda moot...

For the love of *Insert any God/Dieity here* CCP, think of the game as a whole! Don't play favorites with one group. If you make it easy for more players and a more emergent environment. People will flock from highsec to Null. If you play buddy buddy, and basically make it impossible to knock out large groups as it is today. A lot of people will just walk and go to the other games that are on the horizon...just like how Devs are leaving for Riot...

...