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Harassing players irl

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Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#1 - 2014-09-11 05:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rabe Raptor
According to the EULA, what is real life harassment? Having a hard time finding the definition. Is it out of client simply?

Ingame clearly isn't. Are the forums real life? Ingame voice chat? Your personal teamspeak?

Just curious. If its out of client (teamspeak) for example, are blogs, websites, etc. that say scammers use (like for fake api references) real life harassment now?

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2014-09-11 05:13:28 UTC
Good luck, but they won't tell you. You have to keep guessing where the invisible line is, and it changes based on how hard someone cries.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3 - 2014-09-11 05:13:47 UTC
Oh boy. Here we go.

I know you and all the other idiots about to start these threads feel you are too special to post in the sticky, but you're not.

Really.

Mr Epeen Cool
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#4 - 2014-09-11 05:16:42 UTC
Do you feel the need to call your local police?

If so, then you should do that.

If not, then it is probably not actual harassment. But, you know, file a petition.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#5 - 2014-09-11 05:22:34 UTC
Rabe Raptor wrote:
According to the EULA, what is real life harassment? Having a hard time finding the definition. Is it out of client simply?

Ingame clearly isn't. Are the forums real life? Ingame voice chat? Your personal teamspeak?

Just curious. If its out of client (teamspeak) for example, are blogs, websites, etc. that say scammers use (like for fake api references) real life harassment now?




CCP judges things on a case by case or petition by petition basis.

As was told to me by a CSM in these very forums (and made me even question how entire nations are run) re the IZ case, if it was clearly and precisely laid out what harassment was, then some players are going to make circumventing and lawyering over it their entire game, complete with "the art of lawfare" and word games. As such when you create a system that attempts to protect people but tries to define every little nook and cranny, dubious people will game it to death. The United States Constitution and how we ended up with law books thicker than the phone book and everybody is a criminal anyway if a cop tailgates them long enough is a good example of how a system can be gamed to death.

So don't go looking for a clear definition. There won't be one.

And that's a good thing.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-09-11 05:28:06 UTC


Let's use the topic CCP has already created for this discussion.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=372621&find=unread

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#7 - 2014-09-11 05:32:41 UTC
Whoa, that's a new look Sibyyl. I kinda like it.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#8 - 2014-09-11 05:37:02 UTC
Eh, why bother with a petition? You will only get the same bull$.

The name of the game is "Lets vaguely define the rules and then selectively AND retroactively enforce them in order to ban anyone we don't like. Then we cloak everything in secrecy and ban anyone from talking about it." And you know, its their game and their right.

And I'll form my own opinions about their staff based on how they exercise that right.

The sooner you accept that those enforcing the rules are essentially children, the sooner pieces will come together for you.

Do you think it is a coincidence that this occurred right after CCP Gargants' Alliance Tourney petulant tearfest? His post literally needed a Kleenex.

Do you think it is a coincidence that this enforcement occurred only AFTER several months of CODE. sponsored "Burn Jita" levels of high-sec freighter destruction, despite recent buffs?

Still, surprised that CCP GM/DEV staff has fallen this far. This was a pretty good game 5-6 years ago.

I say, double down, pop more freighters, hit CCP where it hurts. Waiting for the winter freeze so I can participate in sending more subscription paying carebears into permanent retirement.

Though really, they can't do more damage to themselves then they already have, throwing away 44M on stupid side projects. Lol I laugh at them.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-09-11 05:38:22 UTC
You do yourselves a disservice by breaking rules to try to prove you aren't breaking rules. There is a thread already for this. IB4L.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-11 05:38:45 UTC
How does this go again...

Can I haz your stuff?

No thats not it...

HTFU?

Hmm, close but not quite...

Ahh of course!

IB4L!
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#11 - 2014-09-11 05:55:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You do yourselves a disservice by breaking rules to try to prove you aren't breaking rules. There is a thread already for this. IB4L.


A disservice? Ha. Thats a good one.

Forum rules, as currently enforced, are a joke.

It more or less boils down to "Hmmm, this thread conforms to the rules.......but we just don't like it. Call it a troll, lock."

Kind of the forum equivalent of what happened to those perma-banned recently, except with higher stakes.

So, OP - good on you. Give em all the respect they've earned - that is, none at all.

Oh, and for the second time, IBTL. Cool
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-09-11 06:01:42 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You do yourselves a disservice by breaking rules to try to prove you aren't breaking rules. There is a thread already for this. IB4L.


A disservice? Ha. Thats a good one.

Forum rules, as currently enforced, are a joke.

It more or less boils down to "Hmmm, this thread conforms to the rules.......but we just don't like it. Call it a troll, lock."

Kind of the forum equivalent of what happened to those perma-banned recently, except with higher stakes.

So, OP - good on you. Give em all the respect they've earned - that is, none at all.

Oh, and for the second time, IBTL. Cool


I actually agree with you. But here's the thing, one dude trolling the forums won't make a difference.

In 2011, the players made a difference.

If I don't see the possibility of any difference made, then I've literally got no reason to get behind what is, essentially, a tantrum.

I tried offering the players a way to make a difference the last time this happened, and I won't be taking the lead again. Instead, I'll just keep playing and laughing at the tantrums while I destroy newbs and carebears, completely within the bounds of the rules of the game, and see how many people I can get to quit.

There's literally nothing better to do right now, IMO.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-11 06:09:14 UTC
Ask a GM. If you don't like their answer, escalate it to a senior GM. If you don't like their answer, play WoW.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#14 - 2014-09-11 06:11:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You do yourselves a disservice by breaking rules to try to prove you aren't breaking rules. There is a thread already for this. IB4L.


A disservice? Ha. Thats a good one.

Forum rules, as currently enforced, are a joke.

It more or less boils down to "Hmmm, this thread conforms to the rules.......but we just don't like it. Call it a troll, lock."

Kind of the forum equivalent of what happened to those perma-banned recently, except with higher stakes.

So, OP - good on you. Give em all the respect they've earned - that is, none at all.

Oh, and for the second time, IBTL. Cool


I actually agree with you. But here's the thing, one dude trolling the forums won't make a difference.

In 2011, the players made a difference.

If I don't see the possibility of any difference made, then I've literally got no reason to get behind what is, essentially, a tantrum.

I tried offering the players a way to make a difference the last time this happened, and I won't be taking the lead again. Instead, I'll just keep playing and laughing at the tantrums while I destroy newbs and carebears, completely within the bounds of the rules of the game, and see how many people I can get to quit.

There's literally nothing better to do right now, IMO.



What we are looking at ultimately is the different between activism and resistance. Cool


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#15 - 2014-09-11 06:19:58 UTC
If you're looking to find the line for yourself; stop playing. Humanity and its society doesn't need you, and this game doesn't either.

If you feel harassed; file a petition. Try to supply logs or as much data as you can. And don't be a baby and leave out the context.

So... goodbye or goodluck
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#16 - 2014-09-11 06:23:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I actually agree with you. But here's the thing, one dude trolling the forums won't make a difference.

In 2011, the players made a difference.

If I don't see the possibility of any difference made, then I've literally got no reason to get behind what is, essentially, a tantrum.

I tried offering the players a way to make a difference the last time this happened, and I won't be taking the lead again. Instead, I'll just keep playing and laughing at the tantrums while I destroy newbs and carebears, completely within the bounds of the rules of the game, and see how many people I can get to quit.

There's literally nothing better to do right now, IMO.


Eh, good point.

With my usual seasonal lack of time, my level of 'give a F about EVE' is at a low ebb.

Not even sure why I'm posting instead of sleeping. Habit I suppose.

My distaste for their attitude and conduct has grown to the point where I consider the recent strings of CCP layoff notices to be the best 'Killmails' of all. Sad, really - Eve *was* really special.

When it comes right down to it - there is only one way to impact CCP however - hit their bottom line. Subscriptions. Just make sure you stay on the right side of the 'invisible line'.

Good luck with that.....Lol
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#17 - 2014-09-11 06:24:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You do yourselves a disservice by breaking rules to try to prove you aren't breaking rules. There is a thread already for this. IB4L.


A disservice? Ha. Thats a good one.

Forum rules, as currently enforced, are a joke.

It more or less boils down to "Hmmm, this thread conforms to the rules.......but we just don't like it. Call it a troll, lock."

Kind of the forum equivalent of what happened to those perma-banned recently, except with higher stakes.

So, OP - good on you. Give em all the respect they've earned - that is, none at all.

Oh, and for the second time, IBTL. Cool


I actually agree with you. But here's the thing, one dude trolling the forums won't make a difference.

In 2011, the players made a difference.

If I don't see the possibility of any difference made, then I've literally got no reason to get behind what is, essentially, a tantrum.

I tried offering the players a way to make a difference the last time this happened, and I won't be taking the lead again. Instead, I'll just keep playing and laughing at the tantrums while I destroy newbs and carebears, completely within the bounds of the rules of the game, and see how many people I can get to quit.

There's literally nothing better to do right now, IMO.



What we are looking at ultimately is the different between activism and resistance. Cool




Not empty quotan.
ITT: Customers try to realise themselves by any means other than the only one that's real; leaving.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#18 - 2014-09-11 07:36:17 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
CCP judges things on a case by case or petition by petition basis.

As was told to me by a CSM in these very forums (and made me even question how entire nations are run) re the IZ case, if it was clearly and precisely laid out what harassment was, then some players are going to make circumventing and lawyering over it their entire game, complete with "the art of lawfare" and word games. As such when you create a system that attempts to protect people but tries to define every little nook and cranny, dubious people will game it to death. The United States Constitution and how we ended up with law books thicker than the phone book and everybody is a criminal anyway if a cop tailgates them long enough is a good example of how a system can be gamed to death.

So don't go looking for a clear definition. There won't be one.

And that's a good thing.
That's quite ********. It was when the initially stated it and it is when it's said now. Will people push boundaries? Of course they will, but the reason rules should be clearly defined is so that people know where the line is so they know what they can and cannot do. When you just say "Don't be bad!" then people have no idea where they stand, so legitimate efforts to not be bad can still end up with you getting instabanned. The thing is, anyone that would game a system with strict rules still games a system with fuzzy rules, so claiming that fuzzy rules is there to protect people is ludicrous, since the only people hurt by it are those who genuinely don't intend to game it.

Funnily enough though, a lot of this came out with the E1 thing. Now if you look at that, that happened on a 3rd party service, yet quite clearly on the ToS it states
Quote:
You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
So even when they do have explicitly stated rules, they don't adhere to them anyway. So basically you have to guess where their invisible moving line is.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dave Stark
#19 - 2014-09-11 07:41:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Good luck, but they won't tell you. You have to keep guessing where the invisible line is, and it changes based on how hard someone cries.


i thought it changed based on # of blog followers?
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#20 - 2014-09-11 08:57:16 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:
If you're looking to find the line for yourself; stop playing. Humanity and its society doesn't need you, and this game doesn't either.

If you feel harassed; file a petition. Try to supply logs or as much data as you can. And don't be a baby and leave out the context.

So... goodbye or goodluck

"Humanity and its society doesn't need you"?

Seems more than a little extreme for posting a forum thread.
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