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DISCUSSION about productioncost going to CCP

Author
SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#1 - 2014-09-09 11:32:02 UTC
Hello fellow pilots,

After a petition, where the GM in question advice me to put this issue on the forum, ill write this article.

Iff a corperation in Eve gather the enormus ammount of isk and effort to build a station in nullsec, the basic taxes for
production going to CCP. In other words , you invest the isk for the station,the sov etc etc and CCP drains the isk from it.

Than iff you have a POS , that you own, fuel, defend etc etc, and you start a job in an array, still you have to pay tax to CCP.

I say this is not fair, for highsec YES , but for nullsec player owned stations and posses there should be nothing that go`s to CCP
( secure commission).

What you

CCP , MR CCP GUARD = defend us :)
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#2 - 2014-09-09 12:43:07 UTC
Yes, the installation costs for industry jobs all go to CCP, so they can afford Exotic dancers and gambling all day long Roll

Ok, seriously now, you pay for the workforce, and for using the facilities in high sec (additional 10% NPC taxes for every job). And that money is just gone, poof. And since you have to hire workforces no matter where you are, either high, low or null sec, there is no reason to complain about it, since we all have to pay it. Just learn to live with it.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#3 - 2014-09-09 12:59:27 UTC
All of your ISK already belongs to CCP.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-09-09 13:04:58 UTC
If you dont want to pay your workforce and if you want to truly build all your stuff yourself, you really should not need to pay anything to install a job.

Of course, the time it takes for the job to complete needs to be at least 1000 times higher than normally.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#5 - 2014-09-09 13:08:35 UTC
no this is without workforce, ofcourse you pay extra for the workfore
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#6 - 2014-09-09 13:10:44 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
no this is without workforce, ofcourse you pay extra for the workfore

Teams are not the same as workforce. There are workers to be paid in every facility. They're they ones actually doing the work that that you want done. Teams are specialists that you can pay to bring in to supplement your workforce.

And none of this changes the fact that all of your ISK already belongs to CCP.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2014-09-09 13:28:32 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
no this is without workforce, ofcourse you pay extra for the workfore



Workforce is what you use to get the job done

Teams are you you pay extra for specialized services to get the job done using less materials or done faster
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2014-09-09 13:30:34 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Hello fellow pilots,

After a petition, where the GM in question advice me to put this issue on the forum, ill write this article.

Iff a corperation in Eve gather the enormus ammount of isk and effort to build a station in nullsec, the basic taxes for
production going to CCP. In other words , you invest the isk for the station,the sov etc etc and CCP drains the isk from it.

Than iff you have a POS , that you own, fuel, defend etc etc, and you start a job in an array, still you have to pay tax to CCP.

I say this is not fair, for highsec YES , but for nullsec player owned stations and posses there should be nothing that go`s to CCP
( secure commission).

What you

CCP , MR CCP GUARD = defend us :)



Here is the deal, people complained about this back in May and June when the devblogs came out

It isn't going away

Most understand it is a decent isk sink and there is too much isk in the game. The amounts are relatively small until you get to an index of 5+

If you have your own station, you don't pay any tax, so you save 10% right there
SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#9 - 2014-09-09 13:41:39 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Hello fellow pilots,

After a petition, where the GM in question advice me to put this issue on the forum, ill write this article.

Iff a corperation in Eve gather the enormus ammount of isk and effort to build a station in nullsec, the basic taxes for
production going to CCP. In other words , you invest the isk for the station,the sov etc etc and CCP drains the isk from it.

Than iff you have a POS , that you own, fuel, defend etc etc, and you start a job in an array, still you have to pay tax to CCP.

I say this is not fair, for highsec YES , but for nullsec player owned stations and posses there should be nothing that go`s to CCP
( secure commission).

What you

CCP , MR CCP GUARD = defend us :)



Here is the deal, people complained about this back in May and June when the devblogs came out

It isn't going away

Most understand it is a decent isk sink and there is too much isk in the game. The amounts are relatively small until you get to an index of 5+

If you have your own station, you don't pay any tax, so you save 10% right there



And that is where it goes wrong!!

We have our own station and still we pay secure commission tax to CCP.
Even with the station on 0%

Before the patch this was not the case, so my question is than, iff ccp gets better of
other peopls station, do they reimburse a part of the station building costs, otherwise it would be verry unfair
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2014-09-09 14:13:33 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:


And that is where it goes wrong!!

We have our own station and still we pay secure commission tax to CCP.
Even with the station on 0%

Before the patch this was not the case, so my question is than, iff ccp gets better of
other peopls station, do they reimburse a part of the station building costs, otherwise it would be verry unfair

Read the answers, it's not tax. It's the cost for the basic workers who live at your facility. Teams are an ADDITIONAL cost for highly specialised workers to help out your regular workers.
The SCC are the agency these workers use to help them deal with capsuleers.
SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#11 - 2014-09-09 14:16:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
SpikeyWelsh wrote:


And that is where it goes wrong!!

We have our own station and still we pay secure commission tax to CCP.
Even with the station on 0%

Before the patch this was not the case, so my question is than, iff ccp gets better of
other peopls station, do they reimburse a part of the station building costs, otherwise it would be verry unfair

Read the answers, it's not tax. It's the cost for the basic workers who live at your facility. Teams are an ADDITIONAL cost for highly specialised workers to help out your regular workers.
The SCC are the agency these workers use to help them deal with capsuleers.



Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner
Termy Rockling
EVE University
Ivy League
#12 - 2014-09-09 14:23:18 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:


Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner


Well if you get all the isk, they need to add extra monthly fees and such for you so you can pay the workers in your stations so the npcs can live, eat, have lifesupport and whatnot.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2014-09-09 15:02:40 UTC
Somebody has to pay to maintain the stargates, CONCORD fleets, insurance adjusters, etc.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#14 - 2014-09-09 15:13:11 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner

Are you physically sitting at your POS actually doing the research, production, etc.? If not, that means someone else is. Unless you're into slavery (which may fly in Amarr space, but I doubt CONCORD would approve of capsuleers doing it in industry), that means they get paid.

You are not paying a tax. You are paying wages for the people who work at YOUR station, YOUR POS, and YOUR array.

Bottom line: get used to it.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-09-09 15:13:26 UTC
Listen, I don't disagree with you and if you look back to May and June, there are TONS of threads of people complaining about this. That being said, you are a day late and a dollar short.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#16 - 2014-09-10 01:49:45 UTC
No offense, but it is an isk sink. Sinks are needed to curb inflation in any online game with a player controlled market.

if enough new sinks are added, then maybe some old sinks, like clone costs can be removed.

honestly, it is the stupidly high costs of losing a clone that keeps most high skillpoint characters out of small ship PVP. It does not help you much if the ship you are flying only costs 1M isk, if your clone costs you 200M without implants.

You can install a jump clone very cheap, but when the clone that keeps you from losing skill points when you get podded costs more than a well fit battleship, it is a big deterant to participate in small ship PVP.

Now that is an isk sink that needs fixed, or removed.

fees and taxes on industry is one of the least game breaking sinks we have.

the tax on industrial jobs, even in a POS, is a great isk sink, and effects everyone equally, with an extra 10% in high sec stations, so nobody gets an unfair advantage.

if you want things like PLEX to come down in cost, than we need more isk sinks, that will drain the wallets of the billionares of EVE. because it is them that keep buying PLEX no matter how high the price goes. PLEX is traded in EVE like GOLD is in the real world.

Isk sinks are one of the most important factors in keeping EVE accessable to newer players. Contray to popular belief, assets being destroyed does not actually remove any isk from the game ecomonmy, it only trasfers it from the player that lost assets, to the player they bought the replacements from. the isk still stays in the game. A true isk sink,is something that removes the isk completely from the game economy. Such as buying seeded items from NPC's such as skillbooks, and loyalty point store items, as well as paying fees and taxes to NPC corps.

the only real isk faucets in the game currently, that is, isk that comes from NPC's to players, is bounties. However, that is a huge faucet, as most players living in null sec get their isk from ratting, which is an isk fire hydrant, that someone left open.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#17 - 2014-09-10 01:58:50 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner

Are you physically sitting at your POS actually doing the research, production, etc.? If not, that means someone else is. Unless you're into slavery (which may fly in Amarr space, but I doubt CONCORD would approve of capsuleers doing it in industry), that means they get paid.

You are not paying a tax. You are paying wages for the people who work at YOUR station, YOUR POS, and YOUR array.

Bottom line: get used to it.


Historically, when slaves were used for contract work, their owners got paid (For example, the pay stubs from the building of the White House). So even if you're using slave labor, you'll have to pay.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2014-09-10 02:25:26 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner

Are you physically sitting at your POS actually doing the research, production, etc.? If not, that means someone else is. Unless you're into slavery (which may fly in Amarr space, but I doubt CONCORD would approve of capsuleers doing it in industry), that means they get paid.

You are not paying a tax. You are paying wages for the people who work at YOUR station, YOUR POS, and YOUR array.

Bottom line: get used to it.


Historically, when slaves were used for contract work, their owners got paid (For example, the pay stubs from the building of the White House). So even if you're using slave labor, you'll have to pay.

and of course there was feeding them and stuff
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-09-10 03:28:42 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
SpikeyWelsh wrote:


And that is where it goes wrong!!

We have our own station and still we pay secure commission tax to CCP.
Even with the station on 0%

Before the patch this was not the case, so my question is than, iff ccp gets better of
other peopls station, do they reimburse a part of the station building costs, otherwise it would be verry unfair

Read the answers, it's not tax. It's the cost for the basic workers who live at your facility. Teams are an ADDITIONAL cost for highly specialised workers to help out your regular workers.
The SCC are the agency these workers use to help them deal with capsuleers.



Still MY STATION , never had agents before.

Same with pos construction, MY POS , MY array......

My point is , as long as it is owned by you ill find it so that every isk made in the station should go to the owner


The game changes

I want Blap Titans back, but goons saw to it that they were nerfed into the friggin ground
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
#20 - 2014-09-10 11:10:52 UTC
You seem to want a story so sit down and listen, you may enjoy it.


For decades, capsuleers had managed to exploit the workers of new eden by paying them in local currency which was only of value in their local station - essentially paying them in fake money with no real value. This suited capsuleers particularly well since they were able to generate a massive industrial output at knockdown prices of which they were the primary beneficiaries.

As time when by capsuleers, greedy as they were, decided to expand their operations to planet surfaces by extracting materials directly from planets, some of which included exceptionally hostile environments - plasma and lava planets in particular posed a challenge due to the geological nature of the planet and the surface conditions under which work crews would need to operate.

So for the first time, capsuleers started to pay isk to workers - to keep costs low contracts were signed before the crews were assigned to a given planet, so regardless of the conditions under which they operated planetary extraction crews were all paid the same amount. This suited the capsuleers just fine, as the minimal costs could easily be absorbed and production could continue apace.

However, over time workers in abandoned planetary operations or simply through rotation ended up working in various interstellar outposts or control towers around the universe. and though the environment there was much more stable than on some of the planetary surfaces, workers still wanted ISK rather than the near valueless local currency they were offered.

Workers being workers they ended up organizing - a series of strikes hit new eden with various responses. Sometimes workers were slaughtered sometimes production runs were sabotaged... ultimately though it was the great empires who sought to bring stability back to their stations and decreed that henceforth all workers in stations they controlled would be paid in ISK.

The effect was radical and immediate as Capsuleers has to now budget for considerable cost outlay to meet the new wages of the workers. An agreement was reached similar to that with planetary crews where regardless of the location crews were paid the same amount - hence costs would be similar regardless of the security space, however rush jobs and overtime pay became a very significant cost driving factor as there were nowhere near enough skilled workers to feed the military-industrial complex built up by the capsuleers.

Rumour has it that workers forced to operate in null-sec and wormhole stations are considering striking again to ask for double pay due to the inherent hazards of the situation - when a control tower gets blown up, there are never enough pods to ensure their survival after all...

And so it came to be that productiokn costs increased very considerably for capsuleers.

The universe has changed and it is not turning back.
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